As you may have noticed, the ECN Firefighters thread has been deleted.
The reason for this is that because of my lack of direction with the original post and following posts by myself, it has turned into a swirling off-topic thing.
But, on the other side of the coin, I would like to make a go of this particular topic, as I feel that we have a population of FF's here at ECN that would like to submit thier views as to FF safety, but would not have had the chance, when some-one else has other ideas, meaning ME!.
Tell me guys, what would you fellas like to see from a thread like this?.
Please, if you have an idea, submit it, you can't do any wrong.
And I also apologise to anyone that lost any postings in the ECN FF Thread.
What I'm after is REAL issues of Health and Safety that pertain to you FF's!.
Take care all,
Trumpy.

OK,
Here's one:
Breathing Apparatus.
What controls are on you as a FF when you are in a building and wearing BA, what sized BA crews do you use?.
What sort of BA gear do you use?.
What happens if one of you guys gets lost in a fire?.
What are your BA search methods?.

I have been curious about combination smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.
If smoke goes up and CO goes down, shouldn't they be separate detectors?

Here in the US, we firefighters recently (1999) had the Occupational Safety and Health Administration mandate that we must comply with the "2-in, 2-out" standard - if you have a team operating inside an IDLH atmosphere structure (one that requires SCBA and/or FR clothes), you must have a team ready to rescue them. Unfortunately, the cities haven't quite improved our staffing to be fully compliant with that standard yet.


We just changed from the MSA Ultralight 2200 to the MSA MMR 2200 - carbon fiber bottles, Mask Mounted Regulator, real lightweight. Haven't had a chance to use one in a worker yer, but they show promise.


Depends on whether your dept has SOP's/SOG's or not, and if they actually follow them.

Supposedly the IC calls for a PAR (Personnel Accountability Report) from all sectors if someone thinks someone's missing,(ICS/IMS/FGC), and they try to identify the missing FF.

If you wind up lost, you're supposed to call a "MAYDAY" on the radio, and identify where you are. A Rapid Intervention Team (RIT) will come through and try to find you.

If RIT is there and set up. Here, our neighboring (bigger) dept. sets up RIT. (A group of 4-6 FF's whose primary job is FF safety. They can be the "2-out", and still horiz. vent, secure utilities, etc, but MUST be available to drop everything in case of a Mayday call)


Right hand or left hand. In addition, we just got a Thermal Imaging Camera, and it's DA BOMB! Used it a few months back in a smoky but not hot fire about 125' down a concrete basement hall.

Like playing a video game.

BTW, in case you're not aware, we Americans generally don't have a national or state fire service (other than the wildland firefighter teams managed by Federal or State Land Management /Forestry /Conservation). The biggest ones we have are at the county level. Most of us are working for individual municipalities or Fire Protection Districts, which are independent taxing bodies that may or may not be directly associated with a particular municipal jurisdiction.

Hope this is headed down the proper path

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 09-27-2003).]

perhaps one of the most obvious health realed issues is the well being of the FF him/herself.

i'd like to see annual physicals, with those whom can't pass taken out of any interior assignment.

a 2-bottle rule would be good also

and lastly, all FF's should know cpr

hey, i had to code a FF once, go to the funeral, meet his family, as well as his mates (who did diddly squat on scene btw)

but whadda i know, i'm just an ambulance driver these days...

DougW,
Thanks for that GREAT reply, mate!.
Over here we have used the Draeger SCBA set until it's just not funny anymore.
When I was a Probationer FF, they used to make us use the old LP(Low Pressure) Cylinders, to test out our Lung Capacity, these were made from steel, and had roughly 90 atmospheres of pressure in them.
They were HEAVY and lasted about 10 minutes, under heavy rescue work, provided that you were fit!.
Since then, I have moved up to HP Aluminium Cylinders and also Re-circ Oxygen.
Sparky, what does "coding" a FF mean?.
I think I know what you mean, but I am not quite sure.
You don't have Annual physicals for you FF's over in the US?, I would have thought that this would be a given, we used to have 6 month ones here, but it has been lengthened(sp?) to 1 year, because of the sheer logistics of getting all the Paid and Volunteer FF's to go and have them done.

Pinemarten,
Smoke detectors and CO detectors, are two different things.
Most smoke detectors work on the principle of Ionisation.
Check this out.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/smoke.htm



[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 09-28-2003).]

DougW,
After all of the technical advances in FF gear, we still do not have comms between the Pump Operator and the Branch-man, over here.
And all of this is really annoying coming from the P/O stand point, you just don't know what is going on "in there", even though you are the BA Controller at the Incident and YOU are responsible for those inside the building.
Doug, are the SOP's that you speak of, a Standard Operational Procedure?.

cpr....

Sparky,
Thanks for clarifying that, mate!

the problem here is there is no state or local oversight of fire dept's.

conversley, ems has federal, state, district oversight

fire dept's have the nfpa, easily ignored as they simply don't come to town

as such, a number of rural fire dept's, in the 'changing of the guard' here , have has thier new chiefs simply throw up thier hands at a generation of denial, and decide to shut stations down

local goverment, the real culprit who's level funding of nothing more than bucket brigades allowed for this scenario, will simply farm out to mutual aid

i b**ch about beuracracy more than most,as it echo's the passing of the ways of old, yet i realize the double edged sword here, one needs to at least aspire to certain standards to survive...

btw~ in an extrodinary act of diplomacy, our new dep. chief had his FF's sit for heartsaver cpr , i honestly thought the earth would fly into the sun first....



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 09-30-2003).]

SOP/SOG can stand for a variety of things these days...

Standard Operating Procedures
Suggested Operating Procedures
Standard Orerations Protocol
Standard Operating Guidelines
Suggested Operating Guidelines
Etc. etc... Once the lawyers get involved, they try to think of ways to avoid making them "mandatory"...Duh.

Your story reminds me of the first SCBA's I used on my VFD. Steel cylinders, thickwall frame, canvas & leather straps. Weighed about 35 lbs.

New ones weigh something like 18 or 20 lbs tops.

The commo we have betwwen the Pump Operator ("Engineer" here) and the Branch Man ("Nozzle" "tip" or "pipe" man) is just a hand held FM radio in either the VHF (140-160Mhz) or UHF (400-460Mhz) range. Some Depts. use 800Mhz repeaters and some still use low band (38-52Mhz), but most paid shops have hand helds for each team. Some rural shops without the $$ still have limited radios & such.

Trumpy,
I should have been a little more specific.
I have seen combination smoke and CO detectors sold in one integral unit. They have CSA and UL approval on the box, but I haven't read any instructions on where to mount them.
It seems to me that smoke detectors are mounted on the ceiling and CO close to the floor. Are the approvals just for the smoke detector?

Guy's,
I've never really worked in a City Brigade, although I have worked as part of a Paid Brigade, which is the same thing.
BUT, One thing I do see happening over here, is that MOST of the money of the New Zealand Fire service goes into "touchy-feely" Fire safety plans, not into actual fire-fighting equipment!.
Which is all very well, if people know how to "stop, drop and roll", but who on earth is going to extinguish your burning house and what are they going to do it with?.
Check the site: http://www.fire.org.nz
It's just all PC rubbish!!.
[Message edited to correct URL]

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 10-03-2003).]

Pinemarten,
Sorry to just "bump you off" like that!.
Yes, I would imagine that the approval is for the Smoke detection part of the unit.
Carbon Monoxide(CO), as it is, is heavier than air, therefore it stays around the floor level, just the same as a Propane leak!.
Anyone that installs Smoke Detectors, should know that there are a few Golden Rules about fitting these simple, but essential bits of household equipment:

• Keep all smoke detectors at least 500mm from a wall!. (any FF worth thier salt will tell you that within 400mm of an upright wall and ceiling, there is a Dead Air Space, that will render a smoke detector null and void.
• Never wall mount a smoke detector, anyone who has told you to do this, is an idiot, smoke detectors work on vertical heat and smoke currents!.
• If you have a 2+ storey house, make sure that you have a smoke detector at each landing in the stair wells, as this will be the areas where a fire will spread quickest.

Need anymore advice?, just ask away!.
Cheers,
Trumpy.

Trumpy, i beg to differ....or should i say our country's standards do..

Sparky,
Yeah, that's a bit of a strange one.
I have always been taught that smoke will always stay away from walls in the initial stages of an outbreak of fire and will only move down a given wall, after there is sufficient smoke to cause it to "mushroom" down the walls.
Is my way of thinking all back to front?

DougW,
Thanks for the reply on SOP's!.
With respect to Comms between the Pump Operator and the Branch-man, we are sadly lacking here, the only one who gets to carry a Hand-held here is the Officer-in-Charge of the Incident and half the time he can't hear the darned thing, either.
Normally the Pump Operator makes most of the Comms to the Comms Centre, via a Blaring RT Horn Speaker (you have to be able to hear the Radio over the top of the Pump Motor!).
This is why we have a Senior Fire-fighter as a Pump Operator, at least we don't get wrong assessments of a job!.
We had a situation a few years ago where we had a Probationer FF, acting as a PO, while the guy went to the toilet (Bathroom), and the PO, came back and wanted a confirmation from the Comms Centre of sending 2 Hazmat Appliances and a TTL!.

Just as a Question, guys.
How do you guys, qualify as Fire Appliance(Pump) Drivers?.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 10-18-2003).]

Doug,
There's a fair bit of use of acronyms in your post about SOP's, a few of which I don't really understand, but hey, that's just me!.
With respect to a MAYDAY call, from a lost FF, over here, we use a DSU (Distress Signal Unit) that comes with the BA set, not nearly as good!.

not at all Trumpy, methinks wall mounts are something of a concession also....

speaking for the rural contingent, if a FF is lucky here, s/he will attend the Fire Academy

sparky,
I couldn't help but notice the sections E and G of the training schedule (Motors and Xformers).
How would these be extinguished in the US?.

probably de energizing it. and hit it with a class C Trumpy

Yes, sparky,
We seem to use more CO2 extinguishers over here than anything else, (as far as Class C fires go).
Faster knockdown of the flames and better cooling of the ignition source.
Also CO2, does not have the corrosive effect of Dry Powder on Electrical equipment.
Tell me guy's, is CAF(Compressed Air/Foam) used, at your Brigade/Department?, if so, what is it mainly used for, as in what type of fires?.

the better departments have this big pigstabber (for lack of proper terminology) that injects foam into a car engine fire, quite impressive really....

some foam structures,i'm not sure of the timing as this technology was not available to us when i was in... i guess it makes the h2o go further, which is the whole rural ball game anyhow

~S~

Trumpy,
Thanks for the response.

I am speaking from Canada, and I haven't heard of mandatory installs here.
In other coutries, are there rules or approvals for residential CO detectors yet?

On another note:

I heard about a push a while ago by FF to pressure tobacco companies to remove potassium nitrate, sulphur, and other 'gun powder' from cigs to lower the risk of fire.

Ever heard of it, or anything new?

Sparky,
That pigstabber, sounds like a really great piece of equipment, wierd name though, it almost takes me back to my days as a Slaughter-man.
But, I think I know what you are talking about in your last comment, we call it "Water-Wetting" Compound, we have these cartridges that fit into the 3rd stage of the pump, during rural and herbage fires.
Just helps the water stick to trees and other such things better.
But, we had a disgruntled Probationer FF at the Brigade a few years back, who was dismissed, before they threw him out of the station(Firehouse), he managed to fill the Washing Machine up with this stuff, we never realised until we washed the overalls the next time, it took 3 weeks to dry the load of washing, in rather hot weather too!
IMO, you haven't lived until you have fought a decent Herbage fire and survived!.

Pinemarten,
To be quite honest mate, I've never actually heard of CO detectors being installed in a Residential situation, but it's a good idea.
If someone could make a Universal detector, that encompasses CO, Gas and other such things and make it to be mounted at skirting level, in a form where it won't be damaged by furniture, that would be great.
I've installed CO detectors in Industrial places, where this could be a Safety Hazard, but they are real hard to calibrate properly, not the sort of job for your average domestic Sparky!.
On the subject of the FF and the Tobacco thing, I do know that cigarettes contain things that shouldn't be in them.
But, I really don't see how a cigarette can spontaneously combust, without an external source of heat.
Are we in the age of the self-lighting cigarette?.

CO detectors in Canada have become popular since deaths related to natural gas furnaces here. Something about corrosion causing the exhaust gases to leak into the circulating air. Inspections aren't mandatory yet.

On the cigarette thing. It is believed that many fires would not happen when cigarettes are dropped by careless/tired/sleeping smokers.
Without the accelerants added to help them burn, they would just go out.

[This message has been edited by Pinemarten (edited 10-25-2003).]

Pinemarten,
Just a note on the smoking thing,
there's no need to go bagging smokers, for the fact that manufacturers put these things in cigarettes.
I smoked for 14 years and I still have the odd one, but I prefer to smoke "Roll your own".
There was a guy over here that turned 100 last week, had smoked since he was 15 and yes he was an Electrician, had used "Roll your own" tobacco since then.

Just heading back to the original FF topic,
Sparky, if you look around the Volunteer Fire Brigades in NZ, you will see all sorts of improvised gear on thier Appliances, particular to that Brigade.
Need is the Mother of Invention.
Everyday my FF training enables me to think quickly for a solution, to a problem, do you guys have the same thing?.

Trumpy-
Sorry about the delay in response - I'm scheduled at our Station 2 for the month - with no internet. AAAGH! (On an overtime detail at 1's today, so I'm back online).

Here in the Chicago, IL, US area, most Driver/Operators (aka Engineers...chauffers on ladder trucks/aerials) have to be certified as a Fire Apparatus Engineer (FAE). We use the IFSTA (IFSTA.ORG (?)) manuals, with some areas adapted to "accepted" field hydraulic calculation numbers.

Officially, the "required minimums" are covered in the NFPA 1001 & 1002 Standards.

In the State of Illinois (and reality), the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" (i.e. Fire Chief) has to give you a blessing and approve you to operate the vehicles. Usually you have to pass some form of competency exam... there's no universally accepted standard.

Most FD's require you to have a license for the weight class of vehicle you'll be operating - in IL it's a "Class 'B' Non-CDL".

(Class B = unlimited GVWR single-body vehicle; CDL=Commercial Driver's License, a US Federal mandate from a few years ago for big rig commercial drivers who haul people or freight. It subjects you to more rigorous standards for non-work related traffic offenses and medical evaluation, and prevents drivers from having six licenses from six different states.)

The state allows FF's to operate under a "Non CDL" so that VFD's can have drivers with proper weight class licenses, without the additional expense of a full CDL monitoring program.

DougW,
Are you a Career (Paid) FF?.
All of our Fire Stations over here have Internet access and are all linked together using a FireNet WAN.
Thanks for your reply regarding Appliance Driving certification.
Over here by law, you have to have a Heavy Special-Type Licence to drive Fire Appliances and Ambulances, as a bare minimum, from there, you are required to be nominated by the District Commander(Chief Fire Officer), as a Brigade Driver.
From then on in, you get trained in Pump Operation using all the various methods of Draughting water, Communications Procedures and BA Control.
There are 3 levels of Driver training here and this normally starts with the candidate sitting a Defensive Driving course, which is really worth it, as your Car driving technique improves too!.
But, the Level 2 and 3 courses are really strictly tested and are hard to pass.
It takes about a year to qualify as a Brigade driver, and in that time, you would only be allowed to drive to Chimney fires and other such small fires.
The scariest experience I've had as a Driver was when a car ran a Red light one night in Timaru and went straight under the front of the Appliance, it wasn't pretty!.

Hey Doug (or anyone else that cares to reply)
How does the Rank system of Fire Department's work in the US, I realise that there is a Fire Chief, but what are the ranks below?.
Also, how is advancement achieved through these ranks?, I'm guessing exams and courses taken with the Institute of Fire Engineers, would have some part in your advancement, would it not?
Along with Fire-Ground experience?.

Actually both. Am an Engineer/EMT on my VFD (14 years) where I used to live (just south of here), and am a Firefighter/Paramedic for the City I live (jsut north of where I used to ... you get the idea) full time (24/48 schedule) for the past 9 years. I still have the rank of FF, but can engineer, and have acted as company officer and "shift commander" for the dept as well.

There really is no universally accepted system for rank in the US. (That's beginning to be an automatic intro for our conversations, isn't it?) Rank structure varies on size of department, as well as attitude.

A small suburban dept (mine) doesn't need the multiple layers of brass that Chicago FD does. [rant]Of course, the reason we have Shift Commanders instead of Lieutenants is because LT's were in the Union, S/C's aren't - even though they didn't hire "replacements" for the new "managers" they created, crying that they were poor, despite the generous raises they offered the individuals in question.[/rant]

Some dept's base their tests on NFPA, or some outside standard. Generally, the structure in bigger departments goes something like this in our area, and may or may not include all of the ranks indicated:

Chief (Fire Chief, Chief of Department, Commissioner)(5 crossed bugles (speaking trumpets))
Deputy Chief (4 crossed bugles)
Assistant Chief (3 crossed bugles)
District Chief (? 2 or 3 crossed bugles)
Batallion Chief (2 bugles crossed)
Captain (2 bugles side-by-side(or axes))
Lieutenant (1 bugle (or axe))
Engineer (may be actual rank, or simply operational position)
Sr. Firefighter (may be actual rank, or simply operational position)
Jr. Firefighter(may be actual rank, or simply operational position)
Probationary firefighter

Moving up in rank usually includes some form of promotional exam, and time in grade, except for the higher ranks (D/C & C in particular, usually require no formal exam, as they are politically appointed positions)

Schools over here vary from state to state - often without reciprocity. Almost everybody accepts training by NFPA or the National Fire Academy, but state schools really don;t carry over well. Rank doesn't transfer either, unless you get direct hired in as a training or EMS officer, or some such "special" rank.

BTW, we also have no real "portability" for pensions in most jurisdictions, unless your FD is enrolled in a state pension plan. So once you're on a job, you're there for 20. (you can take your $$ and go, but virtually nowhere will let you buy time to make up for your time on the job elsewhere)

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 11-02-2003).]

DougW,
Thanks for that explain!.
Over here, the New Zealand Fire Service is a Government Department, funded by the taxpayer and through the collection of Fire Service levies on everybody's Insurance policies.
This means that the NZFS Commission, has free reign over a HUGE amount of money and no, the trickle-down theory does not apply here either.
What is the difference between a Snr FF and an Engineer?, in terms of skills.
What size and type of hoses do you guys in the US use?.

Once again, the American fire service does things differently, not only from country to country, but from town to town!

Senior FF can be a rank, or simply an informal recognition of time on the job.

Engineer can be a rank or a job description.

Often, a senior FF will perform Engineering duties, but, if there is no rank of engineer, it is a detail position, rather than a promotion.

Over here, it depends on the use of the hose (duh!)

We have Booster line (aka "hard line" or "red line", which is stored on reels of 200-300 feet, appx 1" I.D. - flows about 25-50 Gallons/Min at 150-200 Psi. Used to be used indoors, until the safety guys realized what they were doing. Use them for trash and grass fires mostly.

(Now of course, the salesmen are introducing "high pressure-low volume" interior firefighting. Guess nobody is buying the "new and improved" smooth bore nozzles this year, huh? Oh well... wait twenty years, they'll try to sell you the same items you just bought over again.)

For interior attack, some FD's still use 1 1/2" rubber lined double jacketed hose (100-125 gpm). Most FD's have gone to 1 3/4 w/ 1 1/2" threads. since you can flow up to 200 gpm (one heck of a lot of reaction on that, lemme tell ya)

The next "standard" size up is 2 1/2", or "deuce-and-a-half" NST fittings. This rubber lined, double jacket hose was the only hose carried for years by many FD's. Now used for defensive mode ops, and for supplying to a "Y" inside a building. They're a bear on interior, but MAN do they flow nice (200-300 gpm).

We (city) still hae some 3" RLDJ w/ 2 1/2" NST couplings for supply lines, but mostly we use...

4" (100' long) reinforced plastic jacket LDH (Large Diameter Hose) with Stortz fittings. The stuff weighs a fair amount (65-85 lbs/100'), but your friction loss is nothing compared to the old deuce and trey hoses.

For REAL FL modifiers, many FD's have gone to 5" LDH. That stuff weighs a ton (120 lbs / 100'), but your FL is something like .5 PSi / 100' @ 1000 GPM. It's virtually portable water main you can carry in your truck. They use it a lot in the unhydranted areas west of us, or for high risk industrial areas.

A note about threads - a least the metric system is easy. When the US first started forming FD's and fire companies, man ytown used proprietary threads - that way equipment wouldn't get stolen and used elsewhere, and there was no ANSI to generate a standard. That's why (for example) a "Chicago" 4 1/2" hydrant fitting used a 10 threads per inch measurement, and a "New York" 4 1/2" fitting used one at 8.75 tpi.

That's one reason why 2 1/2" is still a standard (national) item. Deuce is deuce is deuce - thanks to the National Standard Thread. (IIRC, it came about after some big fire or another, where the big city called for help, and nobody responding could tie into their hydrants or engines )

Doug,
That's a very interesting post!.
Would your Redline be the same as what we call a First-Aid hose-reel, high pressure-low volume?.
I note your comment:
Why on earth did this happen?, we still use FA hose reels until you can get a decent supply of water after arriving at a house fire, that's why it's called a "first-aid" reel.
Just on the subject of hoses, we don't use threaded joints on our hoses, here, we use Hermaphrodite(sp?) couplings on all our hoses, no threads to worry about, apart from our Suction hoses, which are used to Draught water from Rivers, Creeks and Swimming Pools, these are 6" in diameter and have a Strainer on the end.

Another question,
What sort of boots do you guys wear?.
We have boots that have steel plates and banding all through them.
Makes them a heck of a lot heavier, but at least you don't get nails and so forth through the soles.
Also, do your boots have the loops at the tops of them?

Yes, we have two main versions of the "hard suction" (6" rigid intake line for drafting). One is rubber coated over metal coil,(the big black heavy-as-he(( stuff) and the other is translucent PVC over a wire coil - kind of like clothes dryer exhaust tubing on steroids!

Our boots are usually Servus brand, and are black, with yellow toes and a stripe on the shaft. Steel toe caps and insoles for nail protection.

I'll try to get a link in here.

www.servusfire.com

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 11-17-2003).]

DougW,
Those are pretty flash boots compared to ours.
Ours are made by Skellerup and are just plain Black.
Just as an aside, we are required to keep our boots with a high gloss shine with Boot polish and most of my Saturday mornings are taken up with this task (as well as other Station duties, mind you!).
Just on the subject of draughting from creeks, we had a large hay shed blaze the other night and we had to draught out of an adjacent creek, I was the Pump Operator and the Suction hose was duly dropped into the water and I stared to prime the pump and drew a HUGE vacuum on the compound gauge, but no water, we lifted the Suction back out, to find the Strainer gone and the end of the Suction full of weed and mud.
The Probationer FF hadn't screwed the strainer on apart from half a turn, so into the creek he went, at the order of the fire Chief!.
Lost the Hay shed, but that young fella learned a lesson that night!.

Reminds me of the pump certification at my VFD a few years back.

One of our older engines managed to qualify, but just barely, and was overheating by the time the hours of pumping was over.

As well broke everyhting down, we noticed something inside the suction line...

Seems like when the crew attached the strainer and dropped the line into the retention pond, they failed to take out the two six-foot pike poles that were routinely kept inside... reducing the I.D. of our suction line from 6" to about 2 1/2".

Oops.

Doug,
Has there been a gradual down-sizing of Fire Departments in the US over the last 10-15 years?.
The reason I ask this is because I was reading a NZFS document recently, that hinted at the idea of closing down smaller Fire Parties and Volunteer Fire Brigades that have less than 20 call-outs per year.
What do you (or anyone else) think of this idea?.

The biggest problems we are facing is a lack of folks period.
A lack of volunteers - two many dual income million things to do families, combined with a "corporate gypsy" mindset - folks never set down roots, and don't feel tied to a place emotionally, so why volly?

A lack of paid staff - due to budget cuts, and the International City Managers Association convincing everybody that, despite increases in worker's comp insurance claims, as well as more property damage, a three man engine company is really just as effective as a four man - same as a three man truck being the same as a five-man, right?

It seems like too many Chiefs answered the "how many people is the minimum you can operate with" question from the politicians a little on the short side - now we're stuck paying for it.

The above, and the small # of calls per year are one of the reasons why Rural Metro (a private FD contractor) can operate the way it does. Remember, we're all pretty much independent shops over here, with the exception of the US (federal) fire service - and they only protect military installations.

Doug,
I know what you mean, just over the last couple of months we have had a few FF's leave, here and it's really hard to recruit new FF's these days, mainly because of work pressures and also the fear of a really big blaze here at the moment.
Who want's to be away from work and family for 2-3 days doing hard labour with a hose or a shovel in 30 degree (C) heat?.
Especially considering that the only reward is that the fact that you were there and helped, because you'll get no monetary reward.

Hey Doug and all you other FF's and EMS staff.
Here's a question, bought about by the fact that I am heading towards, probably the most dangerous fire of my FFing career, an out of control vegetation fire, fueled by strong warm winds and tinder dry grass and trees.
But, here's the question (finally), in a responding vehicle, how do you psyche yourself up for what's ahead?.
Better go, getting near the work-site.
Take care all!

<Trumpy>

Hope it's going well for you in the "wildland-urban interface zone"!

I just check my gear, go over the action plan with the crew, and mentally review over my safety "telltales" (warnings) to keep my eyes open for...then I remind myself that a) nobody else is gonna do this job for the measly salary, and b) that's what I get paid (the aforementioned measly salary) for!

Stay upwind / on the black side, Trumpy!

Thanks Doug!.
Well that was one of the hardest blazes we've fought in a while.
It was close to the river which was dried up, and if it had have got into the riverbed, we would not have been able to stop it before it reached the coast and most of Ashburton.
Got home two days later had a shower and a big meal and went to bed!.

Doug,
Obviously being both a Fire Officer and a PoCo Faultsman.
I'm in two minds these days.
Let's put it this way, If I don't ride the pump to a house fire or some such similar event, my Faults Radio will start beeping and carrying on and I will have to run back home as I am not offically allowed to use the Faults Truck to attend Fire calls after work.
But here is the real clincher here, If I am on call for both the PoCo and the Fire Service, I get stood down as a FF upon turning up to the Station and this happens during the weekends when half the time there is not even the Duty Crew there.
When was the last time that you had a Faultsman at your last fire Doug?.
I'm really annoyed about this Doug, I got into this game to fight fires, not sit on my @*$* in a Faults Truck!.

I assume it's a troubleshooting truck called out when the feces hits the oscillating rotator?

Edited to add - if you're on call for PoCo, and you're required to respond in their truck to faults, then why would they complain about your taking the truck to the FD, since you would (assumably) take it to the store, the movies, etc? (unless of course you live next to the only other faultsman in the area, and you time share it )

We had a case a few years ago where most of the Public Works (street/water/sewer) guys at my VFD were on the FD - they used to take one of the "reserve" engines, and their turnouts, to the PW garage, and respond from there to fire calls during the day. Made for a nice "extra" crew, during a usually meager response time.

Then the bean counters got involved - started clocking them out of their $12.00/hr jobs when the pager went off and clocking them in at the (then) $3.50/hr VFD rate, and waiting until the call was over to resume "normal" pay... even though they were working for the Village the entire time.

After the Village refused to change it's stance, most of the PW guys quit the FD. But hey, what does some stuffed shift chair polisher care about FD response and fireground staffing anyway, right?

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 01-31-2004).]

DougW,
Over here there is a certain situation of "give and take" with respect to us Volunteer FF's.
Being an Officer, there aren't many call-out's that I miss and considering that I am employed by a firm, the fact that I am still on the payroll when I "turn-out" just goes to show the high esteem that Community service has over here.
That is apart from the weekends, where I am usually on call for both the Fire Service and the PoCo as a Faultsman.
I enjoy my Fire Service work far more than I ever would the PoCo stuff, at least you don't go to a fire on your own!.

DougW, and anyone else that cares to chime in,
We just got brand new BA gear recently.
New Draeger SP-550 sets and masks, built especially for the New Zealand Fire Service.
Using the same size BA Cylinder as the older Steel HP Cylinders, but with a 1/4 the weight.
We took the sets into a local Blast Chiller in temperatures of -45C and the Regulators never even froze up, even under Positive Pressure settings and Negative Pressure too!.
I like the Draeger sets, I've used them since I first started in the Fire Service, and apart from Re-Generative Oxygen(That I used as a Paid FF) they are the best!.

May I assume you're referring to demand mode (non-positive pressure)?

At the Navy Base FD I worked at, we used to have Scott 2A's - they were a chest mount regulator, that had a toggle switch - you could select "demand", or "pressure-demand", which maintains a +10psi to the facepiece, and then supplies inhalations as needed.

Back in '92-93 or so, the NFPA decided that we couldn't use demand masks anymore - reportedly, too many guys weren't switching over to positive pressure mode when going into structure fires, and were getting smoked. The switchable rigs had their lever pinned in place, or were retro'd. Now they're all pressure demand.

I miss the "old" demand masks. Going in for food on the stove (or other such jobs) with "nuisance" level smoke, they were nice. You could charge the system, and leave the mask clipped on your shoulder.

Take a hit of air, go into the kitchen, turn off the stove, open the window (or turn on the sink), extiniguish (or remove ) burning breakfast, take another hit of air, and by the time you're done, the kitchen's starting to air out. And the best part, you didn't have to refill the cylinder when you got back to quarters.

Oh well, I suppose it's safer. I just miss being able to make the call myself.

Doug,
Sorry about the conflicting terms there,
I was referring to Negative Pressure as demand use, not a fully pressurised mask as in Positive pressure.
The Regulator on our BA sets is connected to the mask itself and has a knob that we turn, to change between Demand and Positive Pressure.
We also have a very strict SOP (28) here in the NZFS about the use of BA sets by Volunteer Fire Crews, using a BA set at an incident, the Cylinder is required to be recharged to thier original pre-response pressure of 190 atmospheres, before that BA set even leaves the Station again.
BTW, Doug, how quickly can you don a BA mask, if something does go wrong?.
WE are told that either you are wearing BA or you aren't, there are no half measures over here.

Pretty darn fast, if I have to!

Seriously, though - it comes down to experience, and size-up. Obviously, I'm not going to leather-lung a house job, unless I'm doing the "hero" bit pulling out the neighbor's kids off-duty. I'm also not going to send a rookie in w/o SCBA, because I feel he doesn't need it. We pack up (don our SCBA) on all alarm calls, but only go "on air" (aka "masking up" here) when we confirm a fire (or, in the case of some of our larger buildings, when we get close to the area of involvement - otherwise, we'd burn our pack just getting to the fire!) We also wait to go on air because we don't have big enough crews to designate a hydrant man - I've had to tag many a plug wearing a pack.

I've yelled at junior guys who didn't pack up on alarms, despite their excuses that "the Commander didn't" or "it's just an alarm". I simply counter with "You do what you practice".

[shortstory] I almost got "caught" by a "TV set sparking" call at the base. We literally have navy guys who marry (Philipina) wives, who come from villages w/o electricity - when they plug in an appliance, it might spark, especially of it was unplugged in the "ON" position (duh). We went over in the engine, and packed up en route out of habit. We knocked on the front door, got no answer. When we opened the door and looked down the hall, the whole entertainment center was burning. We called for a line, (and a full structural response) and went on air. In the short time it took us to do that, by the time we made the door, we really had to push to overcome the overpressure from the heated atmosphere, and the fully involved living room. Got a good hit on it, and had it mostly darkened down by the time the 2nd engine showed up. (BTW - turned out the wife was a torch, and set a 2nd fire the day her insurance company showed up to issue a check for the first one. Oops.)[/shortstory]

The "hanging mask" bit I was referring to was for a "pot-o-meat" job, i.e. saucepan on top of the stove with burnt eggs, sausage, baby bottles, that has not communicated to the cabinets, due to no open flame. In fact, the few times I did this, there was hardly a haze in the apartment - more of a noxious smell that made me taste burnt eggs the rest of my shift.

As I said in my post, I just like being able to make the call myself.

Doug,
We have been caught in the same way, too.
A few years ago, we "turned-out" to a small kitchen fire.
I told the FF's in the back to "Don-up" heading down the road to the address of the incident, there was nothing showing when we got there.
I gave the Pump Operator a hand to ship the Standpipe and instructed the Crew to enter through the front door w/ a FA reel.
Within seconds of saying this, all Hell broke loose, half the house blew out the front, taking a FF with it.
As an Officer I take my FF's Health and Safety fore-most and that was why I asked that they Don up.
The FF had only small injuries (bruises).
But it could have been worse.
A BA mask offers a certain amount of protection to the face though.

[whine&moan] <<AMBULANCE MONTH SUCKS>>

Last year, our department switched from "rotating" medics through 24-hours tours on the "bus" to month long rotations (9 shifts).

It's great for the guys who are off, and is usually manageable for those of us one it - but we've had a spate of 12+ call days, with numerous calls 0000-0700 (shift change).

We normally aren't this busy in MARCH.

C'MON, PEOPLE. the EASTER BUNNY isn;t even risin; around yet.

GO BACK INSIDE. IT'S WINTER!

[/whine&moan]

Hey Guys,
I just earned myself a jump in Rank today!.
I am now called Station Officer Trump, or just Trumpy as before!.
The leap from Senior Fire-Fighter to Station Officer is cool, but also scary, turn-out on the first Pump and you have the whole Fireground to control, no matter the type of incident!.
But, I'm at most musters, so at least I'll earn my NZ$5000 gratuity.
That's almost $0.50 an hour!.
Wow!.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 04-03-2004).]

Congrats, Mike. No doubt it is a well-earned promotion.

Good on'ya, Trump!
(Do I have to call you "sir" now?)

Hey DougW,
Call me Sir and I will e-beat you around the lugs!.
I never got into this game to be a Hob-Knob!.
Just one of the Boys.

But,
let's just get real here for a moment, Fire-Fighting is a dangerous career path, either way.
I'd just like to take a moment to recognise those that have fallen in the line of duty, the world over, paid or un-paid, the call-outs are just the same.
I've been involved in both sides of the FFing game and the fires are no cooler, seems you aren't getting paid to fight them.
There is an International Brotherhood of us guys and girls, that's just how dedicated we are to our own and Fire Safety, world-wide.

Amen. An appropriate post for the American Memorial Day weekend.

Stay safe, Brothers.

Hey DougW and you all FF's in the States and the world over, have a safe and happy year forward, with not too many "bad" incidents, please?.

LOL,
Check out this little piece of wisdom!.
It's in here somewhere .
Good for a laugh.

We have a few towns and fire districts north of us that share our frequency - they also have a very high proportion of trailer parks and shacks. When the (mostly volunteer) departments get a call for a fire, they tone out the four departments as the initial page. The official name for this system is called 'pulling' a "quad one - north".

We refer to it as a "hillbilly north", and suggested once that they change the tone out from "To all quad one north departments..." to "HEY - Y'ALL COME!!!"

Good post, Mike!

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 10-21-2004).]