Would an under cabinet mounted microwave oven require GFI protection if a single receptacle were used. It's a dwelling unit application. The cabinet is above the kitchen counter.

[This message has been edited by Frank Cinker (edited 02-23-2002).]

I'll take a stab. 2002 210.8(A)(6) Says GFI protection is required in

Kitchens -- where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.

So I think that would most likely mean no. However, I think it would be better to use a GFI if the outlet is readily accessible or the microwave is near a sink even if it is not required.

I don't think it matters if you use a single or duplex outlet in a kitchen, however the exceptions for basements and garages do make a distinction, so it would probably be better to use a single outlet.

I had this situation a few weeks ago. The oven was mounted in a cabinet and the receptacle was installed behind it, out of reach of any countertop appliance cord. The unit was within arms reach of the sink, and then I thought that if the ground was compromised and a fault occurred a serious situation could be avoided for $10.00. I installed a GFCI.

Frank, If the receptacle is accesible I would probably say yes. Redsy, in your case I would say no. While I admire your thoughts on safety I would question a couple of things, tripped GFI may turn into "what did that electrician do my micro doesnt work" Also what about all the other appliances. DW, Disposal, Range, Cooktop, Oven etc....

As Electricians we all know it's better to provide GFI protection when in doubt. The tricky part is trying to determine if it is required. As Electricmanscott mentioned, and what I call "potential nuisance tripping" isn't good either.

[This message has been edited by Frank Cinker (edited 02-23-2002).]

Frank,

I do not think a GFCI is required if the receptacle is in a cabinet (above Microwave) it cannot serve the countertop loads.

I have another question;
What about the Receptacles in an Appliance Garage? Do they technically require GFCI protection?

Bill

I would say yes. As they are serving countertop areas.

Bill,
Before the 2002 code came out I would have said that the receptacles in an appliance garage had to have GFCI protection, but the new code tells us that any receptacles in appliance garages can't be counted as the required countertop receptacles. If they can't be counted as a required counter receptacle, then they must not be intended to serve the countertop, and if the don't serve the countertop, GFCI protection is not required. I would expect that this will be changed in the '05 code to require GFCI protection for the appliance garage receptacles.
Don(resqcapt19)

I would agree that they should have the protection, but if one wanted to get nit-picky, they don't seem to count as serving the countertop area. 210.8(A)(7) says that GFCI protection in Kitchens is needed "where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces"

210.52(C)(5) says that Receptacles located in Appliance garages "shall not be considered as these required outlets"

Bill

Don,
I was composing and didn't see your comment.

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 02-23-2002).]

Always looking for the loophole! I like that.

Bill,

Do you have a photo you can post of an appliance garage? I searched through all of my electrical magazines and cannot find. I'm certain I did see one this year somewhere. You know how it is, the one thing you need can't always be found easily.

Thanks,
Frank

[This message has been edited by Frank Cinker (edited 02-23-2002).]

Frank

Here you go;



I think there may be a picture in the IAEI 2002 Illustrated Changes Book if you have that.

Bill

Perfect. Thanks Bill.

Although the appliance garage outlets are not "counted" as the required countertop outlets. I would argue that ground fault protection is required for them.

Otherwise one could put in extra outlets to serve a countertop and not ground fault protect those "extra" outlets because they need not be "counted."

George,

Good point. However, an appliance garage is an appliance garage thus serving those particular appliances in the given garage. Once again GFCI protection is a great idea and probably the right thing to do, but is it required by Code?

Electricmanscott,
Good points regarding the other appliances. After all, I think the whole reason that "countertop" recptacles are GFCI protected is due to the tendency of small appliances such as toasters, coffee makers blenders, hand mixers, etc. have no ground. The ones you mention, including the micro. are grounded, so I probably didn't need it.

If you put the receptacle in the cabinet like many of us do it is not required on a duplex or single. Receptacles in the cabinet are not intended to serve "the countertop surfaces".

Wow this could go on forever. Put ten people in a room with a code rule and you will get ten different interpretations. I guess that always keeps us interested!

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 02-24-2002).]

Another thought. When you pull those appliances out to use them on the counter top the outlet is now serving the countertop. And also when they are in the appliance garage they are sitiing on the counter top right?

Frank:
If that is a dedicated circuit for the micro-wave it should not have to be GFCI protected, and if it is a single contact device.
From your post it doesnt sound if it is going to be moved often or unplugged.
My understanding of GFCIs for countertops is because of portable appliances and the majority are two wire receptacles, ergo the gfci requirement.
It would seem to be a real pain to make that single receptacle gfci especially if it trips then the micro-wave must be removed just to rest it.
In my area we are not requierd to make a receptacle of that nature gfci because of this inconvenience.
Mark.

I don't think that anyone here is suggesting that receptacles in Appliance Garages should not be GFCI protected. I was just pointing out that the code itself, because of it's wording, does not seem to require it. As Don had said, it is something that you will probably see corrected in the next code.

Bill

I just can't resist!!! We think that we are installing the last permanent appliance in a specific location but in reality things change. I agree according to my view it doesn't require but the what if comes to play. Microwave someday will be replaced with something else then the recp will be un protected..I once drove 200 miles to reset a GFI!!!!

CHA-CHING