I agree with N.O. minded (nice nickname) that this is an excellent forum. Good hearty stuff on really interpreting the code.

My question lies in getting the infamous 5 years experience. Due to a "loophole " in the law I'm sure you all hate, on single family dwellings, repair and install work can be done on a home by someone that isn't licensed, as long as it gets inspected throughout and meets all applicable codes. I have been doing this for years now (12!)and I know local inspectors to the point that they even seem to trust my work now. Getting an apprenticeship has been a real bummer if not impossible and no one ever seems to be hiring. Also I feel the local electricians seem to install junk and I don't want to. Some say I do serious overkill, (which make my customers feel safer) but plastic on plastic has forever given me the creeps!!

My question is can I use this experience to justify my years and apply for a license? I did four years college in EE (couldn't finish - ran out of money 3.4gpa with honors!) I fear applying because poor applications seem to carry "rejections with prejudice" but respectable inspectors seem to like my work for neatness, safety, and clarity. (I believe in color coding feed lines, filing diagrams of my work, even for phone line/network/cable tv/x10/surround sound home entertainment/ etc.etc... I want the license however, for multi-fam dwelllings and service entrances. I know protecting the world from idiots and yahoos is important, I feel like I'm the only person in the world willing to undo their messes, but it's time for some real papers. I could pass the test. I have even helped friends study! I think my location is important too. Our inner cities need people willing to make the extra effort to put safety first ( I LOVE the GFI/AFCI discussion!) ANY suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

flipster

Keep up looking for someone to work with and also for some type of program in order to gain the credits needed.

There's many EC's here which can give you ideas and such.

On a related note, it would be a bonus to also hold your P.E. license [Professional Engineer].
Get your BSEE, take the EIT exam [Engineer-In-Training] - which is the first step towards P.E. qualification; do the required Mentor/Protege type intern work under the "Supervision / Guide" of a Licensed P.E., then take the P.E. exam for your State.

This will be an invaluable asset for you - as you will be Licensed as both an EE and an EC [Electrical Engineer and Electrical Contractor].

Of course it will take a few years, but once you have your EIT certification, you can begin applying work experience and Project designs towards the P.E. requirements.

Not sure if your knew of this, so if you did please accept my appology and feel free to ignore the EE stuff!

Scott SET

different states accept different experience, i.e.-military, scholastic, etc...
ask here;
New Jersey
State Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors
P.O. Box 45006
Newark, New Jersey 07101
(201) 504-6410



Insert the dreaded L word....

undoing others 'messes' is 1/2 my biz....so to all those politicians that screw the public out of an AHJ.......

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 02-11-2002).]

Flipster, how about a little more on the "plastic on plastic gives me the creeps"

Flipster,

Are you saying that where you live it is acceptable to contract Electrical work on single Family Residences without a License? Or do you mean to work on your own Home?

How does that work?

Bill

Thanks for the replies!

plastic on plastic...eeehhh where do I begin?

Plastic boxes. I use em' for telephone line, CAT-5, cable tv..all the low voltage stuff, Some of the heavier gauge plastic boxes for conduit are good, but those blue plastic home depot variety... in the real world, they bend the holes strip, it's almost impossible to mount the old work boxes straight, I would HATE to have a warm conductor in there for an outlet, etc...I've pulled em out of kitchen walls melted... in a 3 year old house! At least with AC, the sheath ties to ground and a melted wire trips a breaker! I've pulled a 5 ft length of NM-14AWG out of a kitchen wall all burned and BARE! Puddle of plastic in the wallvoid! Then my safety lecture on armored cable goes off without a hitch. I know why EC's use it... $30 vs. $90 per 250 ft! but it's just not worth it...

Nothing coming out of an ethernet hub is gonna fry CAT-5 plenum rated. I've heard of some phone wires getting warm, likewise for thermostat wire, but nothing too serious. I usually run all my low voltage cables in NM -Rigid conduit pipe anyway, just to keep em' out of harms way in the wall.

Especially since I do a lot of rewiring for a whole room at a time (ex. bedroom converted to home office) I like to use armored cable because the grounded armor also acts as sheilding. The NM-rigid conduit should satisfy 760.55 (B), but sometimes when fishing through narrow wallvoids, I can't run conduit through. In these cases, each wire, for example has gets own hole in a beam, stud, or joist - then back to conduit. These times are where I like the extra sheilding.

Does anyone run a lot of low voltage data cable here? I'd love to hear other methods - especially recommended fire alarm products/installs.

P.s. thank you Scott, I think all accurate information (wether I think I know it r not) is good information! I just wish there was a way of "handing in" well documented experience. I HATE installing crap. Many discussions on this site involve installations that passed where some have justifiable reasons for wanting to do X, and an installation winds up being passed that is not up to the standards of X. No forethought for real safety, just enough to satisfy code.
LAZINESS!! GRRRRR!

flipster

In response to bill -
to work on your own home. I cannot get permits, etc, but the homeowner can... I just get asked for advice a lot because I love this stuff and wind up helping to keep my friends legal so they pass inspectins. Gettting your computers to talk to each other , internet, good sound out of the home ent. sys. Making drawings, proposals, etc. Most people don't have the time. Small companies that want their employees to telecommute don't want an electrical contractor, they want a computer sysadmin advisor. You however, don't want to plug your computer into a non-gounded outlet, so tehy ask for advice. I work with an architect firm as a network specialist. These people however, usually have a t1 or DSL going to their SGI box at home Heavy computer stuff!

flipster

Flipster, Thanks for your input, its refreshing to hear the voice of conscientiousness. I'd like to hear more details about the melted blue plastic box, and the burned-out romex. Could you please explain the physical circumstances for each of those problems?

In response to elzappr I have three words:

ready?

Federal Pacific Breakers.

some work... some wouldn't trip if they were hit with a baseball bat! Add to that those outlet attachments that turn a regular duplex into six outs, - the ones that screw in place of the cover plate....

Don't you wish someone would buy each of you a beer or some special prize for every horror story like this you come across?

I'm STILL laughing at the no-bloze - copper pipe fuses!

flipster

an X-file if there ever was one.....

Flipster. I have to say it was not a federal pacific breaker that made the box or wire melt it was probably poor workmanship and perhaps a person who was not licensed or properly trained. Regardless of plastic or metal there likely would have been trouble. Plastic is absolutely safe and fine for most residential installations when installed by someone who actually cares about what they are doing. ( As you seem to) If you plan to be in business for the long haul I don't think you will find enough people to work for who would rather pay for serious overkill rather than a safe and code compliant job. I find that many people think with their checkbook. You simply can't compete with someone using lower cost materials that install faster and easier with a savings in labor.
PS I hate to go into a basement and see a panel full of FPE breakers as well!
PPS about 15 years ago an apartment building burned near where I lived. The cause: a nail through a peice of Armored cable. The neutral was broken and the nail completed the circuit to the armor. Bring on a nice arc and poof FIRE! I wonder if an AFCI would have prevented this.

Flipster
Scott35 is giving good advice.Check and see if NJ will let you sit for the EIT/PE exams based on your educational background and experience.Also check with NJ and see if they will let you sit for the certified electrical contractors exam once you get your PE.Some states will let you do this.
Good luck.How many credits do you lack for your BSEE?
Chris