We all are safety concious but isn't this taking it a little too far? Read below:

The major pharmaceutical plant we are doing some work at is very safety concious.

Today I had some electricians make up some shielded cables for communications and they were having trouble neatly trimming the foil shield with their dykes. I suggested that using a knife for this would work well but was told they did not have a "Sharp Knife" permit. They assured me this was not a joke and I had heard talk of this at another time.

They said the customer's rational for this is that there should be a "proper" tool to do the job and a knife should rarely be needed.

I said that a knife is the proper tool in this case and used mine to trim the shield.

Alas, you are the victim of "seminar education.'

Management types are going to seminars, the main purpose of which seems to be to reduce insurance premiums. These seminars teach a number of absurd, extreme things, all in the name of "safety."

That these positions are indefensible, contradicted by "safety engineering," or that not a single person invloved in running these seminars has even a single credit-hour in safety engineering are all irrellevant points. Management is the ultimate authority, and "safety" is but their favorite method of showing who's boss.

Getting back on point, in such places shipping clerks, and others who absolutely must cut things, will invariably be required to use a spring-loaded (automatic return) boxcutter, with blades that have had their points removed. Management has taken it, as a matter of faith, that there is NO legitimate use for a knife

Now, the situation need not be so; even where the 'real' reason is some misfit 'going postal,' the complete ban on knives is futile, and foolish.

I have recently completed a job in a medium security prison. As you might guess, there was a vary strict ban on knives (or anything else that could be used as a weapon). And, as listeners to the G. Gordon Liddy show will attest, prison guards are not known for being particularly smart.

Nevertheless, the prison had absolutely no problem with my using knives, pry bars, hammers, and lots of other things that would ordinarily be forbidden. They were able to recognise that I was a professional, that I had a job to do, and that 'the rulebook' had to conform to the real world.

I submit that some folks try to impose a manner of "freedom" that is far more restrictive than prison; but that is another discussion!

You know, I've hurt myself more on those cheap dull flimsy spring-loaded "safety knives" than just a regular utility knife. The main problem with them is that people try to use them as a pointed knife, and I an guilty of this.

Yeah they say the same thing where I work.
You know, you can keep your safety blade, I'll just stick to my trusty old Gerber lock back.

The most common trip to the hospital for us (and I bet most electricians) are lacerations to the hands,

Now we can complain that the bean counters have gone to far but take a minute to look at from their perspective.

Workers keep costing the company money due to cuts, lost time, workers comps payments etc.

In a large company this is a real issue, it cuts into the profits.

The bean counters job is to save this money, they are as proud of the job they do as we are of ours. So it is obvious the issue has to be addressed with some sort of restrictions.

I have never run into a 'knife permit' yet but the company I work for issues gloves and expects us to where them for many tasks.

Personally I hate the gloves but I can understand why them want me to where them.

I cut my hands less now than I did 5 years ago because I use a designed stripper (from Ideal) for shielded cable like RG6. Not sure if that's the kind of cable Bill is referring to, but I don't cut my hands much any more stripping cable televison wire. In fact, I just bought the stripper designed for Cat3, 5, 5E, and 6 just 30 minutes ago!

Knife to cut foil shield - I don't see that as the proper tool at all. Or for stripping either. Not sure of what cable you're dealing with but RG and CAT type cables have purpose built strippers that cut the foil as well - and if all else fails dykes would be a far superior tool than a knife for the purpose.... Just due to risk of damaging conductors if not ones self.

I'll now say that my utility knife is dull as dirt, and I like it that way! I strip NM, and larger THHN with it all the time - sheet rock too. (If I absolutely have to change the blade I run it through some sheet rock to get it to its proper dullness....) As it only needs to be sharp enough to score insulation, slightly sharper than a butter knife will due. I also have a (dull tipped/barley sharp in back) birds bill knife that I use too. Neither will cut skin with any ease, and have not cut myself with them in any recent memory.

That said I mash my fingers and slash myself more on light fixtures, or pulling wire, or pinch a blood blister with my linemans more than anything else. As the saying goes, it not 'work' unless you have to tape up a finger or two. It's part of the job.... Yesturday, I forgot to let the grinder disk stop spinning and let my pinky get in the way. A little corner of a napkin and some Super 35 - finish drinking the coffee and back to work.... (FYI Super 35 doesnt leave a residue as much as Termiflex does.)

Nothing cuts fingers like a Lithonia trougher fixture.... or the box it comes in!

Preach on brother! Speaking of knife restirictions, here at Seqouyah. The knife ban has been in place for two years know. We electricians, have been 'told' that the only tool (as far as knifes are concerned) we are allowed to use are these 'self retracting' utility knifes. Looks similar to the average utility knife, but the second you ease up in the cutting pressure, the blade automaticaly retracts back into the housing. A real PITA.

I still carry my old klien hawk-bill. I just have to be carefull when & where I use it, make sure there isn't any bigwigs around, but that's usually never a problem. I hardly ever run into the big bosses when I am up in the ceiling in cabletrays, or in giant relay cabinets etc.

Maybe you can just carry a part of a Lithonia fixture with you, if knives aren't permitted

[This message has been edited by renosteinke (edited 01-09-2007).]

Good one Reno! I just may do that!

haha

Or for that matter one side of a Raco 4sq...

I like the purpose built strippers for coax too. They do a consistant job of prepping the cable for the connector. I also like a real wire stripper for THHN and Romex.
A regular razor knife is good for some other things but get a good one with solid detents for the blade exposure. The $1.99 ones are usually junk.
I do keep a baby Buck on my keychain that is pretty sharp. When I was working I kept it "scary sharp" by stropping it on a box when I was talking on the phone. Once you get a knife fairly sharp that will polish a razor edge on it. With a careful touch you could still strip wire but that would certainly be an emergency type thing where I didn't have my tools.

An electrician without a knife is like a jockey without a horse.

Oh yeah, so was there a different permit for the "dull knife"?

My leatherman is always kept real sharp, and is always with me, even to church. Permit or no.

When I wired airplanes, a set of flush cutting side cutters, usually off the Snap-On truck, was all I needed to strip all manner of coax wire, depending on what system I was working on. Kept sharp, they have no trouble with the foil. In the maintenance work I do now, the flush cutters are in the telephone/network tool bag. They also make really good fingernail clippers after you tore it on the edge of the radio rack.

TW

The only time I had to get stitches when I was an electrician was from cutting EMT with a hack saw. I cut through the pipe to fast and punched the rough edge of it with my right indew finger...had to get 5 stitches or so.

[This message has been edited by Ryan_J (edited 01-10-2007).]

Knife Permit, that is just silly. I wonder if people are laughing when they come up with that sort of stuff, lol. I think that they should be given a "Give Your Head A Shake Permit".

What I find interesting is that an electrician may play with lethal voltages yet needs a permit for a knife.

I trust you to wire a device correctly so a building won't burn down but a knife, too scary, you might get a cut.

The company I work for doesn't ban use of knives. However I have sign the following forms.
Safe use of knives, proper use of elevator, safe driving statement, take a written test on lift truck operation every year and attend lift truck training, fall arrest training, boom and scissor lift training every three years.

If they want to reduce injuries, ban ductwork. 16 1/2 years as an electrician, the only 2 times I've needed stiches was from (sloppily installed) ductwork.
But the first time I got to watch the HVAC foreman REAM out the guy who installed it.

I have two nice scars from the exact same scenario! I bet there are alot more that have experienced this also.

I agree TrainWire,
The only good knife is a razor-sharp one.
The majority of knife accidents I've seen and heard about, are the result of people having a blunt knife.
It takes a lot more force to cut with a blunt (or incorrectly sharpened) knife, than it does with a sharp one, and the chances of the knife slipping while applying forces like that are a lot better.
I keep a diamond steel in my Faults truck and I sharpen my pocket knife (that is with me 24/7) and cable stripping knives if it seems like they might be getting blunt at all.
I learned from an early age how to care for and sharpen knives, worst thing you can do to it is put a feather edge on the leading edge of the blade.
Only honing the blade on a stone will remove a fault like that.

{Message edited for typo's}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 01-19-2007).]

I agree there's something to that. The one accident I've had with a razor knife was from forcing a dull blade. It slipped and went into the thumb of my opposit hand, cutting through to the bone.

Now, if the blade hadn't been dull, maybe it wouldn't have been forced and slipped. Conversely, if it'd been brand-new sharp I probably would've been having my thumb re-attached....

A funny anecdote: I'm currently working in some pharmaceutical laboratories. Every other person in there is a double-PhD, and yet, they feel compelled to label every razor knife: "Danger: Blade may be sharp!"

-John

Nowhere does it say "You need an alphabet of letters after your name to have common sense". A Degree sometimes means your parents had a lot of money and you just used it and spent a lot of time in school.

I have stabbed myself in the chest many times stripping so cord

An interesting note on the spring-retracting blade: the retraction provides all the force you need to turn it into a toothless saw blade. Accidently put a finger under the blade as it slides back and it likely will cut rather nicely, especially if it has a couple burrs on it.

I should start carrying my "Totin' chip" from Boy Scouts and show THAT if someone asks for a sharp knife permit

I think one of the worst things is that you can work in a restaurant here in PA at 14 or 15 years old and work the deep fryer, but you can't touch a knife until you're 18. If I had to choose, I'd rather cut my finger off with a clean cut than burn it so bad that it has no use. At least a cleanly chopped finger can be reattached.

Hendrix, maybe you need a knife permit....
"I have stabbed myself in the chest many times stripping so cord"

Always cut away from you....

As for gashing the finger after cutting pipe, I have done that so many times that there is a build up of callused scar tissue there! But in the last few years I have gotten so lazy that I break out the bansaw for every thing - even a few cuts on 1/2 emt.

There was a badly-translated warning label on the handle of a knife: "Keep Out Of Children."

posted on jengrish.com a few years ago, might still have it up.

Some of us do need a reminder ya know. :P

girl germs, you mean This?

One other thing,
Them so called Craft Knives are an accident waiting to happen.
I had an apprentice use one of them knives on a Neutral-Screened 35mm2 cable here, he really mucked it up, took out most of the (copper) screening and pierced the insulation on the 3 phases in most places.
Not good when you only have a given length to work with.