This guy found out the hard way that this is a dangerous idea: http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...61219135409990010?ncid=NWS00010000000001

What a clown!!.
I hope that this guy gets everything coming to him.

I read the article and have two questions:

1. Since when can you unplug a furnace? I have never seen a plug and cord-connected furnace, even a gas one.

2. Aren't furnaces usually on their own circuit?

OK, maybe a third question:

In light of my question #2 above, should this guy have even been touching a furnace if he assumed that killing power to a nearby receptacle would shut off the power to the furnace?

I say book 'im Danno.

I guess it depends on wher you live. I have never seen a hardwired gas furnace. Ours are always plug and cord with a fused receptacle. Of course electric furnaces are always hardwired with a fused disco.

I would think that at the very least, this "maintenance man" would go down for 10 counts of involuntary manslaughter. When I was reading this article in the Houston Chronicle earlier today, it really distressed me that someone can be so careless and grossly incompetent as to attempt to shut off a circuit by faulting it. In my mind, I guess justice would have been served if the outlet had blown up in his face .

Funny...I thought voltage testers were made for this sort of thing...

Mike (mamills)

God's grace on the people who suffered loss or injury at this group home.

Please compare this thread .

Hopefully other 'maintenance' people will read this and think twice about doing something so risky..I mean deadly, and call a licensed ec. What a terrible tragedy this is.

What should the penalty be for the "electrician"? Stupid as this guy's alleged actions were, is it not true that this simply could not have happened had the wiring and OCP been properly spec'ed and installed?

Here's my related story.

Once while working for a control panel builder, I was asked to perform a test of the ground-fault trip (arcing, not personnel) on a 1200A main circuit breaker in an MCC. I pushed the "Test" button, duh.

A management type who came out to witness this test said "That doesn't prove anything, we don't know if it will trip on a ground fault, all that proves is that the trip coil works." After insisting to him that this does indeed simulate a ground fault by injecting current into the sensor, he INSISTED that the only valid test was to ground one side of the breaker and turn it on! I refused to be involved in the test, expressing my extreme concern for everyone's safety (this was in 1987 by the way). I left the shop under threat of dismissal, but before I could leave they had a flunky close the breaker with a wire connecting phase A to the ground bus. Wire vaporized, sprayed molten copper all over everyone (door was open too), burned a few people through their clothes, ruined the 1200A breaker etc. etc. etc. Needless to say I was not fired, but I got out of that madhouse as soon as I could.

"is it not true that this simply could not have happened had the wiring and OCP been properly spec'ed and installed?"

No, it is not true!
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/007629.html

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 12-20-2006).]

You could however use a lamp on the end of an extension cord, to find that breaker.
It's not rocket science.

LK, you're a no good low-down dirty liar and I'm going to go do the research to prove it right now...


Uh, oh, never mind...
http://www.sea.siemens.com/reselec/product/rzcbnotacb.html

"Short-circuit interrupting ratings: UL 489 requires a minimum short-circuit interrupting rating of 5000A for circuit breakers rated 250V and less, and 10,000A for those rated more than 250V. UL 1077 devices do not have short-circuit ratings, but the standard does required a limited short-circuit test at a maximum current of 5000A. (The actual test value varies from 200A to 5000A, depending on the rating.) The test and acceptable results are also quite different. UL 489 requires the circuit breaker to interrupt the circuit twice; in the first test, the faulted circuit is closed on the circuit breaker and then the same circuit breaker is closed on the fault. After these tests, the circuit breaker must still be functional and pass a dielectric test. UL 1077, on the other hand, requires supplementary protectors be subjected to three operations. However, the supplementary protectors can be wired in series with a fuse or circuit breaker (the branch circuit overcurrent protection), which is allowed to open during the test. While the device cannot become a hazard, it can become inoperable during the tests."

mmkay...

As I was very clearly just saying yesterday at 11:56AM, circuit breakers are not required to interrupt properly after multiple shorts, and it IS possible for properly installed wiring to be damaged from deliberately shorting a branch circuit.

What a half-arsed safety standard. When I finally break down and buy a house, I'm going to replace all the old breakers and rewire it with gold-plated #6. Or maybe install fuses. Do they make fuses in a circuit breaker form-factor? (I can just imagine the look on the salesman's face)

Maybe you could get a bunch of those Edison fuseholders that mount in a single-gang box and mount them next to your breaker panel, running each circuit through one.

On the one hand, people need to be held accountable. I despise the type of reckless, thoughtless, no-account work that leads to stuff like this.

On the other hand, the world is full of ignornace. We're all ignorant in different ways and a lot of us get in over our heads, some more than others.

This guy just didn't have enough sense to realize his limitations (one being that he wasn't a competant electrician) and it cost the lives of ten people, and in one way or another it will probably cost his life as well.

What an absolutely terrible way to have to learn that lesson.

-John

And imagine the look on your face when he asks how many you need

fuseholders



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-22-2006).]

Is that I-T-E Cordon breaker still made?

Probably not
Just a good example of "never say never".
Got an AFCI fuse?

Please, not an AFCI fuse!!

Is that actually both a breaker and a fuse assembly, in other words, does the breaker provide overcurrent/short circuit protection or is it simply a switch?

I believe that the "breaker" portion is just a switch, and this gizmo was used with high interrupting capacity fuses in services with high fault currents available.