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Posted By: PEdoubleNIZZLE Painting outlets neatly - 10/04/06 05:35 AM
OK, most of us have seen outlets that were painted the same color as the wall. They have a hundred layers of paint and it closes the holes for the plug prongs.

Well, When I was working at the paint desk, a lady asked me what type of paint to use to paint an outlet. After telling her several times she shouldn't, I finally gave in because she was wastimg my time.
I told her:
1) Shut off power until the paint dries.
2) Use only 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of paint max.
3) Keep the coats as thin as possible, and keep it as flat as possible (no brush marks)
4) No metallic paint
5) If you change the paint color or repaint, replace the receptacle. If you feel uncomfortable doing this yourself, contact an electrician.
6) Never paint a GFCI, switch or anything with moving parts, smoke detectors, or anything that gets hot.
7) If possible, look for oulets/plates/etc that fit your color scheme (we have almond, ivory, white, gray, brown, and black devices, and a multitude of plate colors)

As much as I hate painted electrical fixtures, I figured that, in theory, if these rules are followed, there shouldn't bee much problem, especially having an electrician periodically replacing receptacles. Do any of you guys see anything even remotely dangerous here? I asked my manager, and he said it was okay (as far as our store's liability), but then again, he's not an electrician, painter, or insurance expert.

I feel that I was put in a compromising position. By giving this advice, I might have saved a life (say, if someone wants to paint the smoke detector and ends up painting the holes shut and it can't sense smoke), but I may have opened the store up to a potential lawsuit if something goes wrong.

If I didn't give this advice, there's a chance we could be sued, but more of a chance we would win because we told them nothing instead of the wrong thing. The disadvantage is I wouldn't have given the customer vital information, which could lead to possible failure of a device, expecially GFCI's and smokes.

I'm no longer employed there, I got a job paying a little less, but a lot less stressful and closer to home.

So what do you think? good advice? bad advice? anything you would add to the list (I would never take anything off the list). I guess I just need some closure here.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/04/06 06:17 AM
Remove the plate, mask them with blue tape and paint around them. There is no good way to paint an electrical device like a switch or receptacle.
The best looking paint jobs will include new plates and maybe even new devices.
When folks are fixing up a house to "flip" around here that is one of the first things they do. New (usually Decora) devices under new plates makes the place look fresh, even if the wiring itself is a rat's nest.
Posted By: e57 Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/04/06 09:38 AM
I would have stuck to my guns.... Paint is a bad idea. Although I am often ignored and they do it after I leave....

Try suggesting these: http://www.lutron.com/products/ColorsOfLutron.aspx?pid=Satin&cid=0

Here's a funny one though, I showed up as the inspector was walking up to my job, we walk in and find the painter in the act of faux marbling my outlets. The inspector made me replace them all. Said they weren't listed to be painted, the paint could work its way inside, paint is flamable.... Back charge to painter about 6 recepticals... Inspector is back for another inspection and same thing happens, but this time the painter is doing it with magic marker... Painter says , "Well it's not paint..." [Linked Image] He let it fly that time.

Either way I am not sure about the listing end of it, but in general its a bad idea.
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 12:31 AM
I just see the look on the face of the guys at Kern Electric Supply right now....

"I need 2 Ochre colored GFI's, and 1 merlot colored dimmer, Oh, and a biscuit decora switch" [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Probably something akin to me placing a medium sized mongoose on the counter [Linked Image]

But back to the point, I've never been a fan of outlets, switches, etc.. being painted even on aesthetics.. The paint gets scratchlines from bad aim with a plug, switches are alot harder to get clean from grubby hands..

I've had many outlets where I've simply had to kill the circuit and nail it with a hammer since the faceplate screw is impossibly lost under 452334 layers of paint, which also has the faceplate stuck to the wall stronger than most industrial adhesives would [Linked Image] Not to mention when you put a new faceplate on, there's a peculiar ring around the outlet the same color the walls were in 1963 [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Lostazhell (edited 10-04-2006).]
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 03:00 AM
Quote
since the faceplate screw is impossibly lost under 452334 layers of paint

I always thought it was 452334 squared? [Linked Image]

EDIT: Now that I punch that into the cookulator, they must've repainted quite a bit! 204606047556 = 452334 squared. 13036384.043071 a day since 1963!

Ian A.

[This message has been edited by Theelectrikid (edited 10-04-2006).]
Posted By: PEdoubleNIZZLE Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 04:25 AM
Yeah, now that I think about it, I agree with you guys... I should have stuck to my guns.

Funny story, when I painted my bedroom, I painted the walls a nice green color and the trim is Ivory... I put an outlet plate in the spectrometer to make the perfect shade. I guess I cheated, but my outlet plates go nicely with my paint scheme... not to mention metallic copper (my favorite color!) accents in a few places [Linked Image]

Lowe's sells paintable plates that cover the device... the outlet plates cover duplex outlets and have holes for the prongs... Since it covers the outlet, it's like a spacer between the plug and receptacle... I don't think it's such a good idea... and the ones they have for switches just look awful, so I didn't even mention these.

The worst paint job I've ever seen is someone used a sprayer very liberally. All prong holes were covered and FILLED, and and everything was paint glued together. I was the paint crew's clean up guy (temp job), and I ended up fixing their paint mistakes (the electrician redid the outlets, and pulled alot of paint off). The boss guy paid me $50 extra in advance, and it only took me 2 hours to fix the paint (expert hobby painter here). Pretty sweet, considering it's normally $35/day, but pretty sucky considering the real painters who messed this up made $35/hour on the job.
Posted By: winnie Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 04:35 AM
Have you ever seen the "Mr. Bean" (English comedy) episode where he paints a room by setting up a bucket of paint in the center of the room with a large firecracker in the bucket.....

-Jon
Posted By: e57 Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 06:06 AM
They did the same thing on Mythbusters... And had footage of the Mr. Bean episode too.
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 10:54 AM
That episode was on last night. They had some fun with the explosives.

Ian A.
Posted By: denversparky Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 12:01 PM
I did a service call a a while back. The switched outlet in the bedroom did not work. Opening up the outlets I noticed they were all painted white. What a waste of the remodels time and $$. Can of spray paint $3.00 - white receptacle 45 cents. (Oh I guess they were trying to save money to pay the handyman who miss wired the closet and receptacle switches)
Posted By: Almost Fried Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 01:33 PM
And from the Wal-Mart archives comes the 20 amp monoplex outlet that the EC had painted orange and assured the manager that the store computer was connected to an IG receptacle...
Posted By: Zapped Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 02:55 PM
Well, I guess I can understand someone wanting the room to "match", and the devices to be "invisible", but the multi-million dollar projects that are designed by "top designers" that I'm building lately in Southern California are designed with a different approach. They figure, "why hide it". The designers actually embrace the devices and covers as part of the look of the house, and let me tell you, the results are very impressive.

I just finished a "Frank Lloyd-Wright" (spelling?) style home that ran about $3.5M with water features, marble and stone everything, top-shelf appliances, glassed in everything, etc., and I put in gray (deco) devices with stainless steel plates on white walls (mostly). Beautiful. The look adds to the elegance of the design.

If top designers are doing it, it may be a cue to the DIY homeowner out there. Find the right color combo and keep the paint on the walls where it belongs. Besides, a painted device looks horrible after only a few uses anyway.
Posted By: denversparky Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 03:05 PM
Zapped, any pictures?
Posted By: SteveFehr Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 05:15 PM
I've seen people who paint computers dismantle all the [non-removable] fronts off the DVD drives and floppy drives and tear everything down to take to the paint box and give it all a beautiful airbrushing that looks factory & professional and doesn't risk getting one droplet of spraypaint into the electronics. If an outlet were used that the plastic fascia could be removed for painting without irreperable harm, it might satisfy people like this. Would be expensive though, that's for sure, and I'd imagine it would still violate the UL listing...
Posted By: mxslick Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 06:35 PM
zapped:
Quote
I just finished a "Frank Lloyd-Wright" (spelling?) style home that ran about $3.5M with water features, marble and stone everything, top-shelf appliances, glassed in everything, etc., and I put in gray (deco) devices with stainless steel plates on white walls (mostly). Beautiful. The look adds to the elegance of the design.

Only 3.5 mil? [Linked Image]

That's a townhome in Hawthorne nowadays. Or was that the price of the remodel?

The last screening room project I was on the whole house is at $38 million and counting.

On topic, the bar and several other areas have recepts that are faux finished. The painter did an excellent job, not one bit of paint in the slots.

That last bit is the key to all this: IF done carefully, with no paint into the slots or on the contact areas, I see no problem with doing it. And none of the AHJ's have had issues with it either.

Quote
The inspector made me replace them all. Said they weren't listed to be painted, the paint could work its way inside, paint is flamable....

I would challenge that inspector to prove it. (Not the flammable paint part. But then again, the plastic of a recept. will burn quite nicely with enough heat.)

Show me in the UL white book where it says one cannot paint a device.

Prove that the paint did indeed make its way into the device's working parts. If no paint is inside (see my bold/italic above) then IMHO the inspector is dead wrong.

In reality, the people who do faux finishes are very careful and I would have no reservations about any device they finish.

edited for spelling



[This message has been edited by mxslick (edited 10-05-2006).]
Posted By: RODALCO Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 07:13 PM
Winni,

Mr Bean is great !

He jumpstarts his Mini from a streetlight, and just pushes a plug on a lead for his TV and it works just to name a few.

Great that it is possible in a comedy like that. [Linked Image]

BTW, Rowan Atkinson allias Mr Bean, is a fully qualified electrical engineer.
Posted By: Zapped Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/05/06 07:26 PM
denversparky: I've shot some pics, but the quality is not so great (I'm still geting used ot my new-fangled digital camera). I plan on being back out and I'll see if I can get some nice ones to post here.

mxslick: $3.5M for quite a bit of remodel/room, kitchen & bathroom addition/etc. work on a remodel of an existing home in Carona Del Mar. Ended up being a complete re-wire, service upgrade and all, to accomodate all the new neat-o appliances and what have you.

$38M and counting? That sounds like a lot of fun!
Posted By: mxslick Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/07/06 01:19 AM
Yeah, it was indeed fun!! The screening room turned out great, the client was blown away by my sound system and film projectors, it all ended quite well, but there were a lot of migraines getting there.

So far, the most expensive house I was involved with was a mansion done up in French Baroque (sp?) style, several thousand square feet, a Grand Ballroom (about 40 by 125 feet).

Original budget? $55 million.
Final cost? $72.4 million!

The screening room, with interior, furniture, equipment and our labor was close to $3.2 million alone. (Our equipment cost/profit and labor was only about 10% of that figure.)
Posted By: pauluk Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/09/06 08:32 AM
Quote
Have you ever seen the "Mr. Bean" (English comedy) episode where he paints a room by setting up a bucket of paint in the center of the room with a large firecracker in the bucket.....

I've seen a few rooms which do look as though they were decorated by that method!

Everything in the room was painted one color, and I do mean everything: The floorboards, the ceiling, the walls, the window frames, the window handles, the radiators and their fittings, the switches and outlets, and even the cords on the hanging pendant lights.
Posted By: ghost307 Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/09/06 12:31 PM
There was another British show called "No, Honestly" about a newlywed's first year together.
She painted EVERYTHING in the room white, even the lampshades.
As he tried to take her paint brush away from her, she cried "Why, why can't I paint?"
His answer..."Don't ask me, but you obvioulsy can't".

Gotta love those BBC shows.
Posted By: Sixer Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/09/06 05:33 PM
"BTW, Rowan Atkinson allias Mr Bean, is a fully qualified electrical engineer."

I can just picture him at his drafting table or computer with a turkey on his head.
Posted By: Roger Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/09/06 06:14 PM
IMO, I don't think most paints would be detrimental to a receptacle but UL doesn't seem to like the idea..

In the last question on this page UL doesn't condone it but they don't flat out say it can't be done either.

Roger




[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 10-09-2006).]
Posted By: e57 Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/10/06 12:10 AM
Quote
When paint is introduced onto the face of the
receptacle, the ability of the receptacle
face insulating material to resist
a potential arc across the face of
the receptacle from one contact to
another may be compromised. It is
impossible to determine the effect
paint will have on the electrical integrity
of the receptacle.

Roger, I would take that as a NO....
Posted By: Roger Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/10/06 12:39 AM
Mark, I pretty much agree, but with no more of a solid statement as an answer to the question it wouldn't hold much weight.

The problem is
Quote
may be compromised
that statemnt means it "MAY NOT" be compromised as well.

It would seem as though a "yes it would void the listing due to" or "no, it is not permissible to paint a receptacle per the listing blah, blah, blah," would be the solid statement needed to have any strength.

Roger


[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 10-09-2006).]
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Painting outlets neatly - 10/10/06 01:14 AM
When UL says "May be", or it's twin "has not been evaluated"...that's just a fancy way of saying "we have no way of knowing.

Not all paint is alike. Nor are all receptacles. An oil / xylene based paint (such as "Rust-O-Leum") is more likely to attack a cheap plastic receptacle than a water-based latex. UL doesn't know what paints may be used, and does no tests of this sort.
Likewise, some paints have a lot of rubber solids; these probably provide decent insulation. Others have a fair amount of metal in them; I suspect that those just might conduct....

Sometimes "don't know" means nothing more, or less, than "don't know."
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