Just got it today.... A joke in the mail.

Another LATE notice of impending/past deadlines, this one from the CSLB...
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/forms/clcsum2006.pdf
(See last page)

For those not in the know... The often postponed Certification Program in California has bee riddled with problems from day one. One of the main problems was getting people to comply once they wrote the law over for the second or was it the forth time~ The main reason for this was noy many knew about, or much about, or when, or how. FYI, the first and only official notice was sent out after the deadline for continuing to work in Commercial....

Which makes this one in the news letter seem funnier, at least to the people who did thier homework. For the people who didn't, they have to go back to school, at cost if thier employers wont pick up the tab.


Take careful note of the numbers there! There are not enough schools for them all. 33 schools for 30 - 40,000 people, and the schools only take about 100+ each! Thats 3300! (Hundred)What do the other 25 - 35,000 (THOUSANDS) of people do?~

Well the article missed one important exception for the people who are not certified to be able to keep working.

If you live more than 70 miles from an approved school - you can put off the test seemingly forever. The state did not put a timeframe on this exemption.

If you attempt to enroll in an approved school and the classes are full. You have until the next open enrollment to start going to school. You must take your test upon completion of the training or before.

Another item I've been meaning to post. It is about the continuing education.

The state has about 30 schools that are approved to give electrical training to continue working. These same schools are automatically approved to to provide continuing education. The subject matter has to be within the state approved curriculum for apprentice programs.

state approved curriculum.... They used to have them posted at the DAS site for while... Wasn't impressed. I realize they were "Curriculam" not course content, but seemed ambitious on certain content, and lacked something I cant quite put my finger on.... Practicality?

So, any word on when the many thousands of us have the opprotunity to enroll in this continuing edjucation for our required hours?

As for political/legal reasons*, although there may be one here, I would have to drive (about 35 miles/1.5 hours at times) out of town to attend. I'll need to plan that time accordingly, ya know, books on tape or something for the arguous commute....

*Apparently the DAS won't allow 2 programs in the same geographical location.... (See 3075 of the Labor Code) I can only see the need for another here if I have my eyes open.

Well the opportunity to enroll is now.

Stuff like journeyman upgrade classes and similarly titled classes on the proper subject matter are good to go.

The state only made those schools as approved providers. It did not mandate them to offer courses. Some of the approved schools already offer continuing ed. classes.

Books on tape and internet courses have their place. If you want that type of course then you must make your voice heard. It will be a long time before the state gets back to working on the continuing ed. subject and then there is no guarrantee they will allow this type of course unless there is a demand for it.

the people running this stuff in san francisco are so confused themselves. my school was approved last year, and for some reason this year it expired. i couldnt get an answer from them about what happened. i have sent in my $25 and completed trainee registration. they rejected my application and cashed my check. i called them and asked them why my check was cashed if my app. wasn't approved. lady said it just the way it works and i couldnt get a positive answer. now, i have to send them a letter to get a refund. that lady got me so pissed off, and i had to hang up on her.

they have a local junior college that is on the approved list. i called about the program and all they offer is electrical theory. the guy i was talking to even said they arent geared for electrician training, just electricial understanding and basic of electrical.

so much B.S.!!!

[This message has been edited by kojunho (edited 07-21-2006).]

Sure, 49,000 have been approved to take the Journeyman's test. That means that they should not need to go to school to pass.
The remaining 20,000? Well, they have plans to do just what they've done in the past.....not a stinkin' thing. They are working illegally right now, and will to continue to do so.

For the trainee schooling? The schools are not full. Quite to the contrary. ABC sent out a request to members last November to get more instructors so they could gear up for the expected onslaught of trainees. Guess what?? No onslaught!! Lotsa apply and No-Shows though.

Something else that isn't included in the data is the number of "journeymen" that sent in their applications at the last minute, (maybe under the threat of losing their jobs), were approved, and haven't felt the need to study or take the exam.....More No-Shows.
Who knows? Maybe their butt dragging will cause more postponements.

Anyone that is working as an electrician right now is required to be registered one way or the other. I haven't even heard of a single case of anyone having problems because they didn't follow the law. It's all been "voluntary participation". My brother, an IBEW member, says the hall will not send them to call outs if they don't comply.
Other than this type of voluntary action (Our non-union shop is 100% compliant. Even the office people and the owner of the company are certified), there is no reason to worry if you aren't certified.

The reason???

No Enforcement
Look in your newspaper ads. They still contain many job openings for "J-men, Foremen, 2-3 yrs experience" These guys are illegal, and flaunting it. Easy pickins for any kind of enforcement, but there is none.

And the circus just continues......

The closest one to here (Bakersfield) is Fresno at 104 miles... I scheduled to take the test on the 17th, I get there, and all the computers are torn apart They were upgrading computers since Prometric took over things from Experior... They said someone should've called, but no one did At least the company ate the gas, (I somehow burned most of a 30 gallon tank there and back!)

Rescheduled for 8/28...

Randy, all those signs that say "99" on the ride up there mark the highway number, not the speed limit

Driving a fully loaded service van... Ah, I could see it. 208 R/T


Look into the "Failure" rate... As they can drag out the testing, and RE-testing, some may need to go back to school just to make the attempt at the test again.

As for the un-certified, they can still do resi for the rest of the year....

As for the continuing edU... I do, and I DONT understand why schools and programs are being limited to only one per geographical location? Living in a large city with a defininate need, and a central location for people getting off, or during work to go cover thier requirements without our rediculous highway traffic. An on-line thing would, and could be developed. I know someone who does (teaches) on-line course work. (Remote learning is its proper name, and can work well. IMO)

Got the Summer 2006 "CLC" Newsletter on Friday.

Did anyone see the Article regarding _ALL_ Roofing Contractors with Active Licenses (C-39) - regardless if they have Employees or not, to have Workers' Compensation Coverage?

Must be due to the excessive use of Per Diem "Day Labor" Personnel (usually found at the Parking Lots of the "Orange Box" stores); which, if injured on the job of a Contractor filed as "Exemption from Workers’ Compensation" (no employees), has no coverage and therefore must pay for all the medical stuff solely, or through State or Federally funded programs (such as "Medi-Cal").

Either that, or "Arnie" (Arnold Schwarzenegger) has come up with one more way to screw with the Workers' Comp. system.
(most political thing I have ever posted!).

In case some of the ECN Members are unaware of the California Work Comp. "Fiasco", let me just say this:
It was really crazy back in 2001, but now, it's a Full-Blown Circus!

On another subject, I was browsing through the "License Revocations" lists, and saw the name of a joker I had worked with in the past (I stayed 2 weeks). This guy was a real piece of work!
There's about 10 sections violated - and one of them is in the "Felony" category!
Must have relocated up North since I worked there. The License Number is still the same.

Scott35

Scott I would not be surprised that sometime down the road it becomes the same for all trades. Require WC ins. for everyone, even people who might be able to see or hear a job site from a one mile radius will be an eventualality in the deep future.

I think to a degree that Electure summed this thread up with one small sentence:
There was a system here a few years back to catch out un-licenced Electricians here, where they would be called to a certain house and asked to show thier Practising Licence card before entering.
Anyone that never had one was fined $500 on the spot and was investigated by the Electrical Workers Registration Board here.
They weeded out a lot of un-registered sparkies in this way.
A lot of Handymen are being investigated.

Trumpy, they do that here too, take a look at the 2 1/2 pages before the Certification article in that newsletter, chock full of people getting busted for violations on thier "Contractors License", which is handled by the CSLB. Sting operations is something they brag about, and again in that same newsletter, are actively requesting homes and buisinesses to lure in the unsuspecting hack. I actualy know a guy who showed up at one of thier stings.

They should be in charge of this law IMO, but are not.

The "Certification" law is from a completely different agency better known for more talk, less action and sittng on thier hands with extended thumbs. DAS My opinion is that they don't think that they can really enforce it yet - it might mean they have to work.... Really they STILL dont have the numbers of people certified to enforce it yet, but never will unless they do. IMO

And technicaly it is not really a law to ensure that you are "Certified", as much as it is a law re-directing entry to the trade into Apprenticeship Programs. They may even care less about enforcement. Getting certified at this point is just a way to justify the current work-force that they don't yet have under thier greasy thumb. Now its the law that every new entry to the trade gets thier thumb-print on thier maluable little foreheads. They might just be happily over-whelmed with that alone. Really is kind of a misnomer to call it a "Certification" law, as it really an "Apprenticship" law. Making sure they have control over who gets into the trade. The continuing edU is just a method from letting the thumb-print fade......

With jokers like this in charge of what kind of labor the electrical industry gets for the foreseeable future, I get worried. What if they can't produce.... Things may be getting much worse....

The state may not be enforcing the law on certified electricians, but these guys are. www.nceci.info They stopped by a fire station that we are working on and wanted to see everyone's cards. I realize they don't have any official capacity to enforce the law but they sure can cause a lot of grief. I don't mean to turn this into a union/non-union debate but these guys make it very clear on what their intent is. I just wanted to bring up the fact that there are alternative ways to enforce the law even if the state can't/won't do it.

scameron81

"The state may not be enforcing the law on certified electricians, but these guys are. www.nceci.info They stopped by a fire station that we are working on and wanted to see everyone's cards. I realize they don't have any official capacity to enforce the law but they sure can cause a lot of grief. I don't mean to turn this into a union/non-union debate but these guys make it very clear on what their intent is. I just wanted to bring up the fact that there are alternative ways to enforce the law even if the state can't/won't do it."

These guys can come by all they want, but they should be told to take a hike! They are not authorized to enforce anything...period. That they come to a work sight and demand to see anything is pure BS. They are not a government agency and are not part of enforcement. If these "gentlemen" (keeping it nice) were to come to any worksight I have been on, they would be told to get lost and we would in fact call local law authority to remove them from the work sight. As for causing trouble, yes the union has deep pockets, but never underestimate the work of a few good pro bono lawyers can do to keep them spending your dues to defend themselves in court. Especially if they even in the least little way "insinuated" that they were somehow the "law".

Texas went through a semilar licensing program. However, there was also a grandfather clause that allowed a JE or ME electrician to become licensed without taking a test as long as he/she had proof of working under a licensed master electrician for xx amount of man hours. These master electricians were usually licensed through a city that had a licensing and testing program. My question is did CA. have a grandfather clause. Texas also has a continued education requirement that includes training and testing yearly to maintain any license.

scameron81, I too second the opinion of skingusmc. I have sent you an e-mail.....

Richard, Welcome!

No grandfathering at all here in CA.
Even a licensed (class C-10) electrical contractor is required to take and pass the Electrician Certification Exam if he/she is going to be working with tools for any C-10 contractor besides him/her self. A C-10 needn't also be certified to work on their own jobs.

Received from Richard Wehrmeister via e-mail:

I agree the whole country should have a national standard and that is why the IBEW guys were not grandfathered... I'm treading in merky water here, but here goes...

The original law signed by our former Gov. Davis (AB 931) had simular provisions for acceptance of training, however we are not all in the Brotherhood, and the IBEW only represent a percentage of the states workers. (Many people including myself were very angered about possibly lossing our careers due to that.) Also, from what I understand, if your state recieves Federal funding, you have to follow thier rules on "Non-discrimination by Association", meaning you have to be inclusive to UNION, or NON-UNION. Upon realizing this, they needed to re-write the law as it would've caused them to loose federal funding of ALL programs. Something they could not afford to do. So a new law was written. (AB 1087) Which corrected that, kinda... Somehow all the merit shop programs lost "Approval" from the state DAS right after that, and several law suits happened to keep them. This took a few years... Then they realized you had to give the testing in major non-english languages, handicap access etc... New law +/or ammendments, more delays...

So bottom line, EVERYONE needs to get tested! You still had to prove that you had experiance under penalty of perjury, and they can check, and ask for affidavids from employers. But now that the deadline passed for Commercial/Industrial, out of state workers have to prove equivilent licenseing in thier State, and still have to take the test, just like everyone else....

Likewise, if you want a C-10, you have to take the test, even if you have one in another state, even if your "Grandfather" had one.

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 07-27-2006).]

Alright, alright... I took it already



put on ECN server

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 08-28-2006).]

Are we all to post copies of our scores?

Been so long I forget what mine was....

'Bout time Randy....