So, basically it can be good job at present but since I am so young being an electrician could very well become a bad career to be in my life time(and likely sooner rather than later).

So I could find out that 10 years down the road my job security is declinining and salaries are falling due to immigrants willing to work for very little and electricians become less needed becuase of increased technology making it pluck and chuck.(And I assume that when you say pluck and chuck you mean that a lot of things don't get 'fixed' anymore and that instread they parts are just thrown out and replaced)

So I'm not getting the warm fuzzies. Sounds like I should stay away from the electrician field and if anything focus on electrical engineering if I can do it. And that in general the trades are becoming a dime a dozen.

Did I get that right?

[This message has been edited by stevie (edited 07-10-2006).]

1.no, Tiger Woods caddie
2.no, Tiger Woods caddie
3. Sometimes demanding, sometimes boring. Same I suppose with all trades.
4. Depends on what side of the electrical industry you are talking about. The new construction resi market is flooded. The engineering side seems always in demand.
5. Cheap immagration labor is a concern for everyone in every field.
6. Not so, electronic techs are a dime a dozen, and there is no money in it long term. Everything is "pluck and chuck" maintenance now.
7.Sure, you can play with electricity anywhere in the world. stay away from rouge countries would be my advise.
8. No, I'd rather be a township greens keeper, with full benefits and free golf forever.


Only kidding about the golf stuff, it's a good trade. Better if you own the business.
Good luck......

I will second Dnk's advice.
If you can do the college thing I would look at engineering. I do think these trade jobs are going to be scooped up by immigrants and all of the "technician" jobs really lost their luster in the early 80s when things became "pluck and chuck" (good one). We called it "swap til you drop" but there were more FRUs and less LEDs telling you which one was bad then. I was in the computer hardware biz and moved to the electrical side because it was more interesting.
If you can stick it out I would pack as much engineering credits in my pocket as I could and go from there. You might try some "wireman" work in a right to work state during the summer break, just to get some real world experience. I think the only people who are going to have good jobs in the future will be engineering or management but it is nice to have some field experience.


edit to remove the repeated redundency I said again.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 07-10-2006).]

Crap, I meant to post a reply but edited my orginal post instead. AARRRGHHHHH


If anyone knows how to get back my original post I would appreciate it. Perhaps someone could look back in their internet history and pull up the original and copy and paste it into a new post? My computer is set up not to keep a history.

Stevie,

there will never be enough good, qualified electricians. If you want to wire new houses and stop learning in 3 yrs, bad career choice.

if you are willing to learn everyday. to always tackle new problems and learn new skills. If you are not afraid of change. It could be a great career.

But it does require alot of effort on your part to reach to top of the field. Once you get there, you can (and probably will) do very well financially and personnaly.

However, it is a career that will only reward you if you love to do it.

Good luck.

Basically it said

1 If you could do it all over again would you still be an electrician? If not what career would you pick?
2 If you had a son would you encourage him to be an electrician or would you try to get him to go into something else?
3 How much demand is there for electricians?
4 Is there a lot of people going into the field?
5 Is there a danger that cheap labor from mexico would flood the market and lower salaries and benefits
6 Is being an electronic tech better than being an electrician?
7 I always wanted to work abroad. Would being an electrician allow me to do that?
8 Is being an electrician the best trade there is? If not what is?

I am 18 and will be going to college soon. I doubt that I am smart enough to cut it majoring in engineerin but who knows. I do know that I am not that interested in the typical 9-5 cubicle job. I am more interested in a career that gets me outside and is a bit physical. So I was looking at being an electrician as a career choice and was wondering if you guys could tell me if it's a good idea or not.

Thanks

Patience, patience, patience.... the world won't end on your shift!

The trade is expanding, and becoming more valuable, as electricity and electronics reach deeper into our lives. Getting your journeyman card is just the beginning.....

The electrical trade, more than any other trade, requires you to know toher trades, other construction types, and be able to thing. In many respects, the electrician IS the "expert;" engineers are but a 'related trade' when it comes to electricity.

Working abroad is a category all it's own. Our ways are considerably different, so a direct transfer of experience won't be possible. On the other hand, the big engineering firms (Fluor, Bechtel, etc.) tend to do their projects "our" way, and need qualified trades to supervise / instruct the locals.

In addition, the trade can prepare you for other work....as an inspector, plan reviewer, architect's assistant, maintenance department manager, contractor.

Looking back, if anything, I should have entered the trade sooner!

You'll soon learn that lots of folks are 'technicians' or 'installers' only while they wait their chance to become a "real" electrician.

1 If you could do it all over again would you still be an electrician? If not what career would you pick?

Ans: Yes i would

2 If you had a son would you encourage him to be an electrician or would you try to get him to go into something else?

Ans: He is in, his third year, of the program.

3 How much demand is there for electricians?

Ans: Large demand for qualified electricians.

4 Is there a lot of people going into the field?

Ans: No, intrest in all the trades has gone down.

5 Is there a danger that cheap labor from mexico would flood the market and lower salaries and benefits

Ans: Skilled trades are not in the cheap labor group.

6 Is being an electronic tech better than being an electrician?

Ans: To be a top noch electrican, an understanding of both, is necessary today.

7 I always wanted to work abroad. Would being an electrician allow me to do that?

Ans: Yes the skills are portable.

8 Is being an electrician the best trade there is? If not what is?

Ans: Just ask a plumber!


The outlook for electricians. in the years to come are good, this includes well trained qualified electricians, not so good for production wireman, and those with limited experience.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 07-10-2006).]

1 Yes, and No.... Architecture maybe....
2 If I have one it will be his first job, in the very least - theres nothing like slaving for dad right?
3 ARE YOU KIDDING! My shop is short constantly, my last shop was short, my next shop will be short, there are not enough able-minded people out there! Too many people went into computer programing and other things like web design, now they are a dime a dozen - and Trades are short.
4 It seems not, between Electricians and plumbers, as well as every other blue collar trade, there is a shortage all the way around.
5 Not good to play the race card, I have worked with many fine Mexican Electricians, as well as Irish, German, French, Russian, Honduran, Philipino's, Chinese, Aussie, NZ, English - ALL with either Green Cards or citizenship. Although it is illegal to even ask, my former and current employer always do.... All well trained, And I'll say this and duck, most of the American born guys I have worked with lately can be quite lazy. It seems work ethic is a dying art here in my own/our country..... But thats another story. As far as illegals go, most end up in landscraping, roofing, framing or concrete and from what I can tell, for lack of interest of anyone else. I see that as the main problem. If you talk to people who do hire illegal, they'll tell it is not economic or without risk, many will say that they would even hire the Welfare to Work, homeless +/or druggies if they showed up to work and didn't steel from them. Believe it or not, most work hard, and get paid well....
6 Far less demand in electronics, as most things are made disposable due to planned obsolecense law, and the IC. It is often cheaper to replace than repair, but there is work in the field, although waning due to out-sourcing, and reasons like cheap shipping. An Electrician will never be out-sourced!
7 Have know many who have travelled the world doing it, so long as learning does not stop, we all do things a little differently....
8 Depends on what you feel is "Best"? I certainly would not say roofing... But many find satisfaction in cabinetry, and finish carpentry, like anything else, there is a high-end and low end to that type of work. Some people like Low Voltage, some High Voltage....

Stevie, your first post is a thing that was, but is gone forever after you edited it.

With that said, this is a great trade, I have been in it for 32 years (34 if I count some phone subcontractor work) and have continued to learn something new almost everyday, which is a big part of my enjoying this trade.

One thing that needs to be understood is that there is a difference between installers and ELECTRICIANS, what you end up being depends on your desire to go as far as you can or if you are just happy with a pay check on Friday afternoon and a basic understanding of wiring.

Some of the people I came up through the trade with have ended up working in Australia, Russia, Jamaica, Mexico, (made very very good money setting up industrial plants) Grand Cayman, and I'm sure I'm not hitting all of them, these are just the ones that come to mind at the moment.

Working in the field as a Superintendent was the best position there was IMO, I'm in management now (the last ten years) and miss the field terribly.

Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 07-10-2006).]

As far as the electrician/electronics tech thing goes, I wear both hats, so I have a bit of a different perspective here.

Traditional "electrical" equipment is getting more and more "electronic" all the time, particularly in the areas of industrial control and automation. Nowadays, an industrial electrician needs skills in PLC programming, debugging computer interfaces, networking, and solid state electronics to even begin to repair modern control systems.

While the days of making a living repairing consumer electronics are long gone, an electronics tech who specializes in industrial electronics like drives and process controls can make a good living, particularly if they ALSO have traditional electrical trade skills like running conduit and pulling wire. If you can pick up a basic familiarity with stuff like hydraulics, pneumatics, and the like, and you can walk into a job anywhere there is industry.

There is a growing overlap between the various trades, and being the person who can get a facility back online after a failure will be a pretty outsource-resistant position for the forseeable future.

[This message has been edited by NJwirenut (edited 07-10-2006).]

I am 47 and halfway through my third year as a apprentice. I was a machinist for 20 years and when the plant closed down I went into the electrical field. I wish I had done it earlyer. I have had both good days and bad as with any otherjob. I have found out that the more I know the more I need to know. My advice is to stick with it and Im sure you wont regret it. This fourum has been fantastic with all the guys and gals. From answering my questions to helping me stay in the field after I was going to toss two years away. Im glad I stayed.

I spent about 30 years writing heavy duty software: operating system architect, code for the inside of storage systems, medical ultrasound, ... I got tired of companies merging, sending my work off to India, Russia, ...
I've just completed two years of technical School in a year and passed my journeyman's test. In the past three months I've done commercial and condo contruction wiring and am enjoying it.
I would avoid any "intellectual-only" jobs. These are simply too easy to send to the lowest wage country anywhere in the world. Engineering is not immune. Software engineering (and not just simple stuff) is already being done this way. Other sorts of engineering will increasingly go the same route.
Electrical installation, troubleshooting, and repair will most likely always require someone to be onsite. [As equipment goes more and more to PLC (Computer controlled) some remote diagnosis will creep in but is unlikely to completely eliminate onsite work.]

I agree there will probably be good opportunities in the commercial/industrial area but residential is quickly becoming a low skill high volume business. The builders are trading parts for skills. The reason I suggested working a summer job in a right to work state is because a reasonably intelligent guy could be running crews by the end of the summer and anyone with a rusty pair of Kliens and a mouthfull of wirenuts can be an electrician. It is sad but true. I would like to see a demand for better qualifications but it doesn't seem to be the trend. I am also not that convinced that the industrial control and automation field is going to remain a black art. The same thing that happened to the mainframe computer field is going to happen to this area. These boxes are going to become modules that get snatched out and replaced when the red light comes on. The only difference will be the size of the wires going to them. Maybe I seem bitter but I have had several great careers become obsolete. I'm sure there will always be a great job out there on the bleeding edge of technology but that will be a moving target so you need to stay flexible. One thing I do know is you should be sure you have lots of cards in your wallet and lots of skills so you can jump when the "edge" moves.

..stay away from Iron foundries in Northern Indiana....

I'd love to see this happen in PA. I couldn't imagine the amount of guys going out of business, if the state had a licensing program. Pay rates would go up, once the supply of "station wagon" electricians and out-of-state "wannabees" get erased. It would be the best thing for PA, once the politicians get off their butts and do something...

[This message has been edited by Dnkldorf (edited 07-11-2006).]

gfretwell,

So if you were 18 today what career would you pursue?


By the way great feedback guys. Keep it coming. And I really appreciate it.

My first thought was spanish or chinese language teacher but seriously I expect the world will finally start to embrace some of these "alternative energy" schemes so that may be a growth industry.
The fact remains you can probably make a good living as an employee but you won't get rich until you work for yourself. That requires more business sense than trade skill. It also requires a lot more work and a whole lot more risk. Yoiu should never stop learning. The world is a dynamic place and things are always changing. This doesn't have to be college, you can learn a lot while you are working and the internet is a great source.

Many years ago, a friend of mine was in the business of repairing 2 way radios, for police, commercial fleet trucks, etc. I noticed that he only worked alone, but was always complaining about having too much work. When asked why he never had any help, this was his reply.
You have to have electronics training etc. in order to fix radios. Those who are smart enough to fix radios always want that corporate "lab" job. Nice, clean, inside work. This job requires field work. Imagine having to go fix the radio in a cement truck!
My friend was always in big demand, and made big bucks!
Now look at electricians!
More and more states are requiring stringint training and certification. Many who are smart enough to learn it would rather go for that, "lab" job. Nice, clean, inside work. To be an electrical engineer or the like.
Causing a shortage of field electricians! Making us worth more. Supply and demand you know.

Gfretwell are you sure you want to use the title Electrician in that sentence? Your idea of an Electrician and my idea of an Electrician are quite different. The jest of your sentence may be true of wiring houses in your area, but be assured that is not the case everywhere. Those you are looking at as being Electricians are simply Installers as I said in my earlier post.

I agree, but in areas such as Asheville we have a 1 to 1 ratio even in the residential side. Unfortunately this requirement is not statewide.

I'm sorry for that but, Electricians are still in demand.

I would say that depends on the employer the benefits and what ones definition of rich is.

I absolutely agree with every word there.

Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 07-11-2006).]

You are right Roger. I appologize if I sounded like I was trivializing the whole trade but 1&2 family is certainly getting dumbed down so that it really doesn't take 5000 hours to learn the day to day.
Big commercial is definately a different situation but with so much industry pushing offshore I am not sure how many folks they will need. When you look at things like GM talking about screwing employees out of their health care, pension plans being abandoned and airlines demanding that pilots have to take pay cuts, I am not sure simply working for a big company is any guarantee that you will keep getting fair compensation. IBM just sent letters to a bunch of retirees saying they made a mistake and that calculator you used to predict your pension check was wrong. They are adjusting your check to the "correct" lower amount. They were supposed to be the best company for benefits, job security and pensions.

Sometimes they say,
"a wireman can install but an electrician can repair the problem"

Most of the single family work I do is pretty high tech... Lots of automation/intergration here, not work for a "Rope-A-Dope". And some of the high end work can make you feel more like a craftsmen and artist than 'just' an electrician.

If youre reffering to the "speculative building" portion of our industry, thats another story. A great place to pick up bad habits, and learn very little. And end up as a "Rope-A-Dope".

IMO, and I say this strongly... You are either an "Electrician" or you are NOT. Be it residential, or commercial.... The only difference I see is material, and often where I am the material is the same. I pipe and MC a lot of residential. A "Rope-A-Dope" in residential work is just as dumb as a "Rope-A-Dope" in commercial. He just might be a "Pipe-Dope".

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 07-11-2006).]

I guess seing that the OP is not in the Trade or at least yet, we should probhably define what an "Electrician" is. As opposed to the other terms like "Rope-A-Dope", "Technician", or "Installer". For that matter "Mechanic", "Apprentice", "Journeyman" or the other various terms not mentioned.

These are my definitions, others may vary...

• "Installer" synonomous with "Rope-A-Dope", often reffered to as "Bodies" if reffered to as a group... Couldn't design a circuit to save thier lives, often hand fed work item by item, so as not to confuse or overwhelm thier fragile little minds. All derogitory terms for either the totally un-skilled, Apprentices, or Journeymen alike who lack certain skills or knowledge. Or who are often careless about thier work, but they are reffered to as "Hacks".
• "Electrician" (In my personal opinion) is a "Journeyman" with a well rounded range of experiance. May also be reffered to as a "Mechanic", "Wireman", "Lineman" (For our POCO friends) or "Technician". Sometimes even a "Specialist"... Most of these are just titles they hand out on certification or buisiness cards, but "Electrician" is kind of an earned title IMO. But it doesn't make you a Jedi Master, as there is always more to learn, even as a "Master Electrician"

I'm sure others will elaborate.....

Just because you become an electrician, does not mean you have signed on for the trade to serve up your destiny.