Arc faults tripping under loads. Why is this? Tight staples?

I have seen this happen with Cuttler hammer, seimens, and GE breakers.

You can't even trouble shoot this problem.

I have a simple, easy... and illegal way to correct the problem...but like I said its not the correct way.

I hate AFCIs.

Trick you have a connection between the neutral and a ground someplace in your circuit. When current is drawn at this point in the circuit, the afci kicks off. Happy hunting, and please don't yank the afci's until the code allows it. (probably a matter of time)

I ran into this once too, but my problem was simple. Hopefully your's will be this simple.

AFCI would trip when any load was applied. I pulled apart connections ensuring a good connection and everything checked out fine. I thought I would try another breaker, and when I went to remove the breaker with the wires still in, the black wire was loose. The wire was actually behind the lug in the breaker, so the screw wasn't compressing it. I put the wire in properly (and also checked the other breakers, which were fine) then tested the circuit......no more tripping. Sometimes the obvious can stump you.

Don't you mean a GFCI??

A standard part of AFCI breakers is ground fault detection. Unless it is a combination AFCI/GFCI, the 'pickup' level will be much higher than in a GFCI, but it is still ground fault detection, and a neutral to neutral 'fault' will trip the device.

-Jon

Lest we forget...there are a few things out there that fool the afci into thinking there's a problem- where there isn't one.

These appliances include dimmers, ceiling fans, and electronic ballasts.

Reno, I keep hearing about fans, dimmers, ballasts, etc, and I believe you about it, but I myself have yet to have witnessed any problems with any of the above items causing trips on an afci. One thing I have seen though is older, well used multi plug surge protector strips that were causing false trips on the afci bedroom circuit. Replacing those fixed the problem.

Mac, perhaps I ought to explain my statement a bit.
With AFCI's, I have had but one circuit (out of maybe 20) that instantly tripped the AFCI, yet otherwise seemed perfectly OK. As you might guess, this was on a lighting circuit that had lots of dimmers.
I also have had a dimmer switch once fool a GFI into thinking there was a problem.

My general statement about fans, ballasts, and dimmers (as well as surge supressors, and a few things I can't remember) comes direct from the local Cutler-Hammer rep.

Recently, I did some work in a new home that, disregarding the NEC, had only the bedroom receptacles on AFCI breakers. Since our local code pretty much follows the NEC, I can only conclude that the inspector failed to notice this. I'm also willing to bet the tract developer did it deliberately, so as to avoid call-backs.

C-H and SqD have list of "Known Equipment Conflicts" i.e. items that just plain ol' won't work no matter what you do. You can call and ask if an item is on thier list, and thier reply is "well sorry..."

Things I have found that wont work are Vaccum Cleaners, most like variable speed motor contols in say power tools and the like, some brands and makes of plasma and LCD screens (TV's and monitors), and yep some dimmers and other types of controls. I have torn my hair out looking for some of the "wiring defects" that could cause a trip, only to find that some breakers just wont work with some things. Now I just call before I go any further. As most of those things will trip right away...

IMO these things are still in thier infantcy, remember it took years for them to get a GFI that worked well with some things.


SqD actually told me that I had to get a newer lot number, and had to get it shipped from them because it had not made it into the supply system yet. Charged me for it too.

With my problem its not a matter of a dimmer, fan or whatever. The AFCI will trip whenever there is any load put on the circuit.

Plug a drill or any other device into any plug on the circuit and it will trip.

I'd say either the neutral for the circuit is accidentally connected to the neutral buss bar instead of being connected to the AFCI, OR its tied in with the neutral of another circuit or grounded out elsewhere..
It does not sound like its a problem in the hot leg of the circuit... the more I think of it the more I think its a problem with the circuits neutral somewhere... I'd put money on it.

A.D


[This message has been edited by Rewired (edited 03-12-2006).]

I HAVE HAD THE SAME EXACT PROBLEM -RESET THE BREAKER HOLDS FINE TILL YOU TRY TO TURN ON A LIGHT OR PLUG IN A DRILL ECT. AND POP THE AFCI TRIPS. I PULLED ALL THE RECPTICAL COVERS OFF AND FOUND IN ONE RECEPTICAL BOX THE GROUND WAS BARELY TOUCHING THE NUETRAL SCREW I PUSHED IT BACK FURTHER IN THE BOX AWAY FROM THE SCREW, RESET THE BREAKER FLIPPED THE SWITCH TO THE LIGHT AND WOW !!!! IT HELD FIXED THE PROBLEM. NOW EVERY TIME I HAVE AN AFCI TRIP I GO LOOKING FOR ANOTHER ONE OF THESE. TRY THIS AND SEE IF IT HELPS

GOOD LUCK
TOM

"Plug a drill or any other device into any plug on the circuit and it will trip."

A V/S drill is just the type of item to pop it, and maybe not the item to test with. Example, I have a saws-all that will not work on any AF device - at all. But if it is "ANY" load, then it will be a wiring defect. (Ground - Neutral, Neutral - Neutral, or even Hot - Hot) Kill all the power, disconnect them all and ring them out to eachother. You could even have induced current from other circuits if not properly spaced....

What have you done so far to eliminate the possibilities? Like tighten every connection? Eliminate branches of the circuit to isolate the problem?



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 03-13-2006).]

We opened up all the devices. Didn't see any problem, but when we closed them now it works. So must of been something touching. Weird it only trips under a load.

On these problems, I bet if you swapped the white and black at the panel, you would pop a regular breaker or see sparks somewhere.

ran into the same problem w/GE afci. Everytime I turned on the bedrm lites the thing would trip when i plugged something into the outlet it was fine. Turned out the connection for the dimmer was arcing under the wirenut. Tightened it and it worked fine.Installing AFCI u need to tell them they get the taillight guarantee lol!!