ECN Forum
Posted By: bot540 What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 02:36 AM
http://www.electrical-online.com/
Posted By: mxslick Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 03:10 AM
Wonder how much liability insurance this guy's carrying? [Linked Image]
Posted By: BigJohn Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 03:14 AM
From the first page I clicked on:
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Basic Rules of Electricity...Electricity ALWAYS seeks the quickest path back to its source or to the earth.
He should've stopped while he was ahead.
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Why Ground?...Proper grounding provides a safe path for electricity to safely move...back into the earth, which happens to be a very good electrical conductor.
I can't even come up with anything sarcastic to say about that one.
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Polarized receptacles operate on a 2-wire vs. a 3-wire system. A polarized receptacle visibly differs from a grounded receptacle as they are two, rather than three-pronged.
Huh, and all this time I thought polarization had something to do with one slot being bigger than the other.

The rest of the content seems alright, but it suffers from the same problems as all step-by-step explanations: They only cover very specific scenerios. If the readers installation varies by one or two steps, they can quickly become confused. "Okay, I see where the black wire goes, and I see where the white wire goes, but what about this red wire...?"

-John
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 03:26 AM
OK, $3.99 a minute, or $19.95 for e-mail...hmm $240 per hr.

Looking further, he's located in Canada!

I don't know the legalities as to our friends in Canada 'advising' accross the border on NEC, but with the quantity of lawyers here in NJ, one of them may, if the $$ are inviting.

How to books at the library, or Barnes & Noble are a lot cheaper. Hiring a pro in real life is a much better move.

BTW, he has NO pros listed for NJ, any takers???

John
Posted By: Tiger Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 03:44 AM
bot540, it might be a good idea to edit & remove that link. Some inexperienced homeowner might use the information to put their bare hands in a live panel with a couple of screwdrivers (as instructed) & kill themselves.

Dave
Posted By: gfretwell Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 03:45 AM
This guy may be making all his money by brokering "cost plus" electricians after Harry Homeowner gets things so screwed up he is ready for a hosing.
Posted By: bot540 Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 04:53 AM
Homeowners: I do not advise you not to take on any electrical projects by yourself. Regardless of who tells you how easy it is. Call a professional. Getting shocked is not fun, I know from experience and it can also be quite lethal.
Posted By: Celtic Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 04:54 AM
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BTW, he has NO pros listed for NJ, any takers???

I just signed YOU up.
LMAO
Posted By: Trumpy Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 06:15 AM
From the site:

Have you ever:
  • Struggled with a 3 or 4-way switch?
  • Scratched your head trying to figure out ‘which wire goes where’ when replacing a fixture, changing a receptacle or switch, or hanging a ceiling fan?
  • Puzzled over a tripped breaker?
  • Tried to understand wire colors and wiring configurations?
  • Wanted to tackle wiring that basement, garage or shop, but hesitated taking on a project that large?.


These people are the first people that should be getting an Electrician on site.

Giving advice over the Net is a worry, because you never know what the guy who's asking is really looking at.
We all know how good customer descriptions of problems can be. [Linked Image]

{Message edited for a typo}


[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 02-24-2006).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 01:41 PM
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Basic Rules of Electricity...Electricity ALWAYS seeks the quickest path back to its source or to the earth.

Why is it that so many people -- even supposed expoerts -- seem to be unable to understand the concepts involved here?

Surely it is isn't that difficult to grasp the idea that (in a grounded system) the earth just happens to be a convenient path back to the source?
Posted By: Radar Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 03:12 PM
Paul - I've always thought that it's because electricity is a highly abstract application of physics, and many average everyday people simply do not deal well with abstracts. Sometimes you can 'splain & 'splain but it never seems to gel & make sense in their mind.

In checking out this guy's website, i don't get the feeling he's a rip-off guy, he just hasn't faced a large law suit yet.

Radar
Posted By: gfretwell Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 04:44 PM
I can't imagine how this guy could be sued any more than a guy who writes a bad DIY book, and there are plenty of those.
Of course in the US anybody can sue anybody for anything ... but this guy is in Canada.
In most places you have to have a license on the line to really have any skin in the game. An unlicensed hack doing unlicensed/unpermitted activity is actually in a lot less trouble than a licensed contractor, working with a permit, who just makes a mistake, even if that mistake is inspected and approved. (See the electrocution thread).
BTW that inspector and building department is protected by soverign immunity in Florida. I doubt suing them will go anywhere except to run up more huge legal bills for the taxpayers.
Posted By: Dave T Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 05:26 PM
Regarding liability? I wonder if the DIY network got my message.
Here is a question that I posed to the DIY
network regarging replacing old light fixtures with new that require that they be installed to 90degC wire. This is my Email to them and the link at that time. I never received a reply to my question to date but have since noticed that the link and any references to light fixure replacement have disappeared.
Here's the link and question:
Re. "How to replace and old light fixture at:http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/diy_kits/article/0,2019,DIY_13787_2275068,00.html"
My question: Your description conveniently omits the fact that a good majority of "old fixtures" that people are replacing are either the old cloth covered wire or the 60 deg C rated TW wire. What have you done to address the instructions for the new light fixture that call for installation with 90 deg C wire and not the older 60 deg C as most people commonly have?
Also, because it is also not uncommon for the older light fixtures to get so hot that they degrade the insulation if the 60 deg C TW wire such that the insulation crumbles off when the old fixture is removed.
How woud you address this.
I agree that to address such issues would be opening up pandora's box, don't ask don't tell.
What would you be liable for should you mot address these issues?
Please advise
Posted By: macmikeman Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 05:30 PM
quote"Surely it is isn't that difficult to grasp the idea that (in a grounded system) the earth just happens to be a convenient path back to the source? "

It is my opinion that the earth is a rather inconvenient path back to the source. Given the relative high impedence of the earth, it takes a whole lot of electomotive force to get the electrons convinced to utilize earth as a "convenient path". At least this is how I grasp it.
Posted By: BigJohn Re: What do you think of this? - 02/24/06 11:00 PM
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Surely it is isn't that difficult to grasp the idea that (in a grounded system) the earth just happens to be a convenient path back to the source?
A good friend of mine once installed an isolated-ground receptacle and created the "isolated ground" by simply driving a ground rod and taking the receptacle EGC to it.

To his credit, he even went as far as to create a controlled, intentional ground-fault to the rod, so as to ensure that it could sink enough current to trip the breaker. But he when I tried to explain what was wrong with the installation, he didn't seem to understand my problem.

Here's the kicker: In about three months, he will having finished all his schooling, and he'll be a licensed electrical engineer!

-John

[This message has been edited by BigJohn (edited 02-24-2006).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: What do you think of this? - 02/26/06 02:35 PM
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It is my opinion that the earth is a rather inconvenient path back to the source. Given the relative high impedence of the earth, it takes a whole lot of electomotive force to get the electrons convinced to utilize earth as a "convenient path".

Perhaps "convenient" wasn't quite the right word to use there.

My point was that many people seem to have the idea that "electricity will always try to get back to earth." They don't seem to grasp that the electricity will only flow back through the earth if and because the source is grounded. Take an isolated system, drive a ground rod, and connect that ground rod to any single point of the isolated system and all you've done is create a grounded system. That single ground connection by itself doesn't result in current flowing to earth.
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