Vehicles are getting cheaper by the second the world over.
What is your preference as far as the gear- stick goes?.
I, like a lot of people learned to drive in a manual and I like to have control over the engine while I'm driving.
In fact, I'd sooner have a 5 spd gearbox than any Auto any day.
Your thoughts?.
Can you prove me wrong?.

When I was younger I loved a manual tranny( I still do in my 67 mustang) but I'm old and lazy now so I prefer an automatic in my work truck. Don't have to pay attention to shifting that way I can drink coffee, read the paper and talk on my cell while driving

I'll drive either. I always had manual in my earlier driving days, but I've been driving automatic for a good many years since I decided to buy American vehicles.

A lot of Brits have an aversion to automatic transmissions though, so I'm quite possibly in a minority here. Automatics are much less common here than in the States.

My first car was a '65 Corvair with a 4-speed. My second car was a '69 Camaro convertible with an automatic.

All of my vehicles are now automatics. The cell phone takes up my other hand.

Never gave it much thought until I bought a pickup with a floor stick - then had to drive it on LA freeways in stop-N-go traffic daily. For years. I think I prefer a stick in all situations except 1) stop-N-go traffic, and 2) driving uphill in San Francisco.

Radar

My first experience in using a manual tranny came the day I joined the Fire Department. I've never been as scared in my life as I was when I took a 20,000 lb. fire engine out for a spin (along with an experienced Chauffeur, thank God) .

Love standards, but now it seems everything, even fire trucks, are going automatic. Not as much fun anymore .

Mike (mamills)

There once was a blissful time upon our dear little planet. It was because they were building chevys with manual three speed shift up there on the steering column. Rrrrrrrrrrr.Rrrrrrrrrrr. Rrrrrrrrrrr.Zoooooooom. Now I buy automatic. And I tell my kids speeding is a bad thing.

I drive both manual and automatic and, while I prefer banging my own gears when I want to drive, I have to say for a daily driver, an auto is just more convenient( lazy?)
I will make the point that autos are not as efficient as rowing your own. Thus, manuals do get better gas mileage, which is probably why they are much more popular outside of North America where gas is cheap, relatively

Standard for fun, auto for daily driving.

As has been said, with coffee, a sandwich, a phone and paper work who has a free hand to actually drive.

My dad insisted on my learning to drive on a standard, many of my cars and personal trucks have been standards, work truck auto.

Bob

Mike... "Three on the Tree" as it was known around here.

I did a lot of close quarters snowplowing with "three on the tree" and I can tell you first to reverse and back again would get pretty tiring.

Than of course as the linkages got old and sloppy they would jam up.

One of the more interesting standards I drove was a 1960s era International Cab over. The transmission was about 6 or 7 feet behind the stick, with the stick in a gear it still moved around so much you would think it was not even connected.

Getting the feel for the gears on that one was a fun challenge ggggrrriiinndd oops that was "R" not "3".

Bob

The stick is more fun but the auto is better for a heavy van or for a company truck that many people drive. In both cases clutches cost too much.

When I worled at the supplier I learned "standard" on an old 1960 Clark Forklift.. not so much the shifting but working the throttle , clutch and brake to move the old heap around...
I prefer standard if I am not on the road long and not in too much traffic or what have you but I prefer automatic for when I am caught in traffic, on the road for long periods or towing.. Automatics are the best for towing in my opinion ( Just be sure its capable of doing so!)
A.D

When I worled at the supplier I learned "standard" on an old 1960 Clark Forklift.. not so much the shifting but working the throttle , clutch and brake to move the old heap around...
I prefer standard if I am not on the road long and not in too much traffic or what have you but I prefer automatic for when I am caught in traffic, on the road for long periods or towing.. Automatics are the best for towing in my opinion ( Just be sure its capable of doing so!)
A.D

Had a standard in the last work van. Hated it. I would have to try and answer the phone, shift, sometimes stear, and even write notes at the same time. Not enough hands.

Also with the stop and go traffic it would get old. Some cars tend to get in a crawing mode. They will just inch along 10 feet, wait 15 seconds, then another 10 feet, etc. It's funny cause sometimes they don't have anywhere to go yet but everyone gets an urge to move up a few feet 1 car at a time.

Tom

When I was young I loved the stick, then when I got older, I prefered the automatic.

Now that I'm even older, I prefer passenger...


Dnk...

"Had a standard in the last work van. Hated it. I would have to try and answer the phone, shift, sometimes stear, and even write notes at the same time. Not enough hands."

try answering the phone, eating a burger, taking down a phone number all while making a left turn with a stick!

It's a good job some of you don't drive in the UK, where it is illegal to use a phone while driving [unless it's a true 'hands free' type]. People have also been successully prosecuted for eating while driving, lighting cigarettes and in one case a lady was fined for eating a chocolate bar while stopped at a red light with the car out of drive and with the parking brake on! With the engine running you are driving. As for writing or reading a map, that's asking for a 12 month driving ban and a massive fine.
The UK has one of the lowest car-accident death rates per HOP in the world, powered by draconian actions against all the causes of accidents, which is the payback.
As to Automatics, I've had several. Fine for big engines, but for small european cars up to 1.5 litres, IMHP, they are hopeless.

Alan

1.5 Liters, that is a snowblower motor.

Kidding aside the death rate here in the US is staggering, about 40,000 people a year killed in traffic accidents.

Some areas have banned cell phone use while driving, however I think it will be long time before they stop us from coffee and food.

Bob

I think a "big gulp" coffee is more dangerous than a cell phone but my beiiest distraction was my Motorola PT (the original "blackerry" type RF device, circa 1986 or so. Typing on that thing damn near got me killed a few times.
I do think it is the height of hypiocracy for a cop to write a ticket for using anything while driving. They have at least 1, usually more like 3 radios, a pylon mounted laptop, a cell phone, a GPS navigation system and a RADAR, all used regularly while they are speeding.

BTW I agree with Alan about a 5 speed on the zippy little cars (my Honda is 2 liters) but the auto makes sense on your truck.

My first experience with a stick-shift was actually my first electrical job. Boss asks me: "Can you go down to the supply house and pick up that load of ridgid?" He points at the 45' long stake-body truck. Seeing as how I'd only learned to drive the previous summer, and learned in an automatic Honda Civic, this was more of a challenge than a question.

Not one to back down, I say "Hell yes." and hop in the cab. The next twenty minutes are sheer terror; screaming down the highway trying like the devil to get out of second gear and it sounds like the trani. is grinding itself to pieces.

I get to the supply house sweating bullets and only get a brief respite before I have to back out of the parking lot (you've never seen anyone back up more slowly than I did) and wheel the truck back to the job.

Amazingly, I didn't kill anyone or anything in the process.

Now, I actually prefer manual transmissions. Mainly because my current car is an automatic, and it sounds like the transmission is dying, and I'll never be able to repair an automatic transmission! If I had a manual, I'd probably only be replacing the clutch.

-John

"We waited a hundred years or more for the automatic to be realized, and this question is still out there" -Click and Clack The Tap it Bros.

I live in a city of big steep hills with stop lights at the top of every one, I have no choice but auto. I lost a clutch on a 2-ton truck on Gough st (A truck/stick drivers nightmare*), and had to get the cops to back me down it during rush hour traffic - never again!

*Simular street on same hill a few blocks away used as a ski-jump!


{ Edited for image link - Paul }

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 02-17-2006).]

" but for small european cars up to 1.5 litres, IMHP, they are hopeless."

Alan, as a Mercedes diesel enthusiast that reminds me of the joke about the old 240 diesels that were imported with automatics. You had to keep a pair of binoculars on the passenger seat to check for a gap in traffic big enough for you to pull out.

I fondly remember the stick days. My Olds had the 3 on the tree Saginaw. It would stick in 3rd if you didn't go completely up into the neutral gate before pulling to go down into 1st. I would have to kill the engine, set the brake, and get under the hood to pull up on the linkage on the steering column. Another time, my clutch pivot broke and I had to shift without it and was fine until the red light. Then I put in a wide ratio Muncie 4 speed and a Hurst shifter. The Muncie had a bad 4th gear synchro and would kick into neutral if I backed off without holding it in.
The winter driving is where they really shine though. Back then, before the traction control systems and ABS, the precise control of power to the rear wheels could really save the day.
But now I live in Chicago and this city never needs an excuse for a traffic jam. It gets pretty old to spend 75% of your time holding the clutch in. So my last 2 cars have been automatics.
My funniest memory of a manual is from college days when I had been driving my Olds with the mechanical linkage and racing clutch. I got into my brother's 240Z with the hydraulic clutch. I thought my left foot was going to go through the floor the first time I hit the clutch. My best friend used to challenge me to get my car started w/o the starter on all but the most level lots. If I could get the car to roll at all, I could get it to start by easing out the clutch in 2nd gear. That came in handy a couple of times.
As pilots, examiners can ask us to demonstrate competent use of any equipment on the airplane. I think it is a good idea for cars too. Any new driver I work with will have brought a car to a complete stop with both their parking brake and engine/tranny with a stick. I've never asked anyone to slam an auto into park though. They'll also learn how to shift without a clutch except from a stop.
As for distractions causing accidents or near misses, it was an open ice tea container tipping over that almost caused me to run into my cousin's car. He wondered why I stopped about an inch behind him. In the airplane, tuning more than 2 dials on the transponder between instrument scans, just about guaranteed a slow right turn. Destractions can come from anywhere.
Joe

Manuals anytime. I have to entirely agree with Trumpy.
You have much better control of the vehicle especially in hilly counties like New Zealand.
On long descents you always smell the overheated brakes from people with automatics who leave the shifter in drive all the time instead of changing down to 2nd.
Our fire trucks are automatic unfortunately, but give me a 12 speed Dodge anytime, much more joy out of double clutching a manual gearbox.
Cellphones, no excuse. Use a car kit.

Ahh yes, shifting without the clutch! I have had to do that when my friend's Jeep had clutch problems... Stopping meant stalling the engine, starts were made in gear.. I got it to the mechanic's though..

I also live in a city that is right on the Niagara Escarpment.. there are major roads that go up and down this escarpment and when I am decending these "mountain accesses" as they call them I always drop my automatic down to "2" or even "1" depending on where it is and speed limit.... Never have to touch the brakes at all really on the way down..

RODALCO


Interestingly the recent studies are showing that hands free are no better than hands on phone as far as distraction.

Greg


Wow.. that has been my thought as well.

We expect a lot from our police and they more than any driver are exposed to information overload.

I have owned both . I learned to drive a stick with a chevy nova with the 3 on the tree set up. now I have automatics. When I bought my pick up I noticed that the tow rating was higher for the automatic. Gas mileage was no different. I just got tired of the stop and go in slow traffic. plus all the idiots who insist on stopping inches from the rear bumper.

I think anyoner with an AMC era Jeep has driven without a clutch a time or two. It was cable actuated and the clevis used to break. I probably still have a couple in my tool box. I could replace it in the dark in a couple minutes. I finally gave up on the factory part and had a buddy in a machine shop make me one from a solid block of steel. That one ain't gonna break.
Other guys I knew swapped the whole mess out for a "juice" clutch kit.
I also managed to get a Mustang II home from downtown DC without a shifter. I jammed it in second until I got it out of town and them managed to get it in 3d for the rest of the trip. I only had to run one red light. :-)
This was through the top of the tranny, shifting directly on the forks with a screwdriver and vice grips.
That tranny had a shaft that came out the back for shifting, similar to an old bug.

My afore-mentioned Corvair also had a cable-operated clutch, and I did the start-in-first-gear-and-shift-without-the-clutch dance, too.

My repair was to attach a large cotter pin to the cable end, using the eye, and bend the tips back to create a W-shaped cable end.

I don't see a problem with automatics on hills, if people use the manual low-gear lockouts, and don't forget that there are positions beyond "D" and just ride the brakes all the way down instead.

Regarding column-mount versus floor shift (whether manual or auto), British cars have tended to favor the floor position much more than American in the past. Column shifters pretty much disappeared completely here by the end of the 1960s, and even those were typically only on certain larger models (Ford Zephyr, Zodiac, etc.).

It's quite amusing to see the young-uns look at American vehicles if they've never seen them before and look puzzled over the column lever and nothing on the floor! That's not to mention under-dash parking brakes which they seem to find highly amusing. They've never known anything but the modern centrally mounted brake lever between the seats.

Only for the last couple of years. Personally, I think it comes down to applying common sense. You don't want to try dialing a number while negotiating heavy traffic in a busy intersection, but is picking up a phone and pressing one button to answer a call while driving along a straight road any more "dangerous" than looking down to switch on the radio, adjust the heater, or any one of a number of other things?


It's gotten ridiculous. There was a story a while back about a cop trying to charge somebody with "careless driving" because he saw her turning and talking to her passenger -- While stopped at a red light!

It's a good job some of you don't drive in the UK, where it is illegal to use a phone while driving [unless it's a true 'hands free' type].

Alan, it's the same here in the US. Most places it's illegal too. Only difference is with Americans it's "screw you, catch me if you can!"

As for the stick vs automatic debate, I learned to drive with a stick and I'm comfortable with either. All my vehicles are automatic though and it's tough to find anything new here that isn't unless you are talking heavy truck or high end sports car. Try to find something that doesn't have A/C.

-Hal

"Try to find something that doesn't have A/C."

Why??? I love my AC! It even helps with foggy windows in the winter.

Pauluk:
You should see the looks and confusion I get sometimes when some "inexperienced" people look inside my truck and see TWO shifters.. The one on the column for the trans and the one on the floor for the transfer case... I just tell them its both an automatic AND a manual, column shift or floor shift, " Whatever I feel like driving"... That blows their mind

A.D

LOL! That reminds me of the old Land Rovers here: Three sticks on the floor with different color knobs. Black was the regular 4-speed shifter, then there were two shorter ones with red and yellow knobs (I forget which way around) for high/low trans and 2/4-wheel drive selection.

Regarding "Catch me if you can," that's been precisely my attitude to the seat-belt laws since the first one came into effect here in 1983. I hate the things and absolutely refuse to use one.

I hate the fact that there is now a law telling me to wear a seat belt.

That aside I don't drive without one outside of my driveway.

Having been in a few serious crashes I am glad I had my belt on.

Paul obviously it is your choice but I am curious why you 'hate them' unless your driving a very old car seat belts do very little to restrict normal movement.

Bob

I got my license in '74 and have always worn seat belts. It's some of the shoulder belt anchor points and inertial reels that have bugged the heck out of me over the years. I remember my older brothers always making us buckle up in the mid 60's but my dad not really caring. I'm not sure my dad's '60 Buick even came with belts, or his '64. Does anybody remember?

The only thing I've been doing differently lately is to wait until I have engine start before buckling up. Belts are great when you're moving, but not if you're burning.

Back to transmissions, just the way we talk about them is out of whack now. We tend to call a manual transmission a "standard" or a "stick". But is a manual still what comes as standard equipment or is an automatic standard? Should I start telling folks I can drive an optional transmission? And why is that old 3 on the tree accepted to mean a 3 speed Saginaw on an old GM and not a Turbo 350 with "D", "L2", and "L1"? They all have sticks sticking out of them, don't they? I love all the memories this brings back and the fact that some of the old automotive terms and phrases so commonplace then, will just make young folks cock their heads sideways and wonder if we've lost it. Thanks for the topic, Mike!
Joe

Bob,

I grew up never using seatbelts, as did my whole family. Up until about 1978 we had an older car which didn't even have any belts. I was forced to use one when I took my driver's test in '83 as the law had just been passed, but I always found the things very restrictive and uncomfortable. The only time I've ever buckled one since is to escape a police check.

There's ample evidence to show that in many types of crash a belt will actually do far more harm than good, and in fact there are many accidents on record in which a person has been killed by the belt or has escaped only because he wasn't strapped in.

As for the law, it sounds as though we're probably in agreement. Even if there were no questions about effectiveness or otherwise, in my opinion it would still be none of the government's business whether I buckle up or not.

I have had that Whole "seatbelt" thing drilled into me since I was a kid. Gotten to the point where I would AUTOMATICALLY put it on if I am moving a vehicle across the shop parking lot!!
I think its a good idea to wear them, but thats just me, and around here they are really REALLY sneaky with that whole seatbelt check thing, to the point where they hide on highway offramps and around hilly roads and things. They hide better than they do when they set up radar traps!!
A.D

Speaking of dumb looks. Watch the face of someone sitting for the first time in a mid seventies to early eighties Saab trying to find the ignition switch.

Had a 77 model 99, put a 112 thousand miles on it after I bought it used.

Stick shift for me.

TW

It's all about raking in the money rather than any real concern about our safety. I don't want to go way off-topic on what would soon become a long rant, since I object to the laws most passionately. If anyone feels the same way though, have a look at the following website which is run by my good friend Nedd Kareiva in Chicago:
www.seatbeltchoice.com



I've never had anything to do with Saabs. So where is it?

We had an old jet-black Rover 60 c.1955, hand-built way back before British Leyland ruined them and fitted Lucas horns to the workforce, ( so they didn't give a hoot either ). It had a puny 60 b.h.p. x 4 cylinder 2-litre engine, with overhead inlet-valves and side-valve exhaust for some strange reason. Under the dash lurked a large black bakelite knob, next to 4 on the floor. Turned 180 degrees it engaged 'freewheel', that is, the car automatically coasted if you took your foot off the throttle, to "save petrol". This monster two and a half ton slug was a joy to drive, in leather-cosetted comfort, sneering down on lesser mortals in crappy Ford Populars through ones split-screen, (as they overtook one with effortless ease in first gear), but go down a steep hill in freewheel and the fun soon faded, along with the brakes!


Alan

Saab never bothered to lock the steering column, they locked the gearbox in reverse, hence the ignition switch was between the seats.

Coffe makes a terrible lock lubricant, don't ask me how I know.

TW

Probably the same way that I once discovered that sticky sweet orange juice isn't the best contact lubricant for a 4-way power strip!

Never tried auto... we always had a Mitsubishi van with column steering.

As long as I remember I had to put on a seat belt and I just feel uncomfortable without one.

Also don't like seat belts, rarely wear one If cruising past a cop, (who have a tendancy to squint to see if you have one on.) I slip off one suspender, and it kinda looks like one. My wifes Escort has auto shoulder straps, of which are broken. So you have to wait for it to let you out of the car sometimes, or as you attept to get out the clasp will smack you ing the head.

As for steering wheel locks, I recently took my Savana in to have the steering lock fixed, only to find out it never had one.

Ouch, thankfully auto shoulder straps are really rare here, I hate them! I am able to fasten my seat belt myself...

One thing I want to add... it's true, sometimes seat belts harm in accidents, but in a far higher number of cases it's one or two broken ribs with the seat belt and being dead without. I'd definitely prefer the broken ribs!
A friend of my parents was driving in Italy in an old R4 and the girl on the passenger seat didn't wear a seat belt, the driver did. The driver got out mostly unharmed, the girl was thrwon out through the windscreen and died after being in coma for several months.

Austria, Germany, and many other European countries enacted seatbelt laws around the mid-1970s. Czechoslovakia appears to have been the first European country to pass such a law, around 1970.

The various Australian states were also early adopters in the 1970-71 period, with New Zealand following soon after (1972, if I recall correctly).

The U.K.'s first mandatory belt law was introduced 1983, and the various U.S. states started implementing them from the end of 1984 onward, but were much slower overall. A large number of states still have only a secondary belt law, not primary (i.e. the law says buckle up, but you can't be stopped and ticketed for it unless you've done something else first, like speeding, running a light etc.).

New Hampshire is the only remaining state in which it's still perfectly legal to drive unbuckled. Live Free or Die!