My next door neighbor approached me several weeks ago to ask if I would be interested in handling the electrical portion of his basement finish. Being the neighborly type I said no problem. He said the carpenter contractor across the street would handle the framing. I said, "Let me know when you framed and I will get the rough-in done right away."

Well, the neighbor approaches me the other day to tell me that his sister, the carpenter/electrican handled the framing and pulled all of the NM cable BUT she doesn't want to terminate the cable in the panel.

He wants me to examine what she has done, terminate the panel and trim out all of the devices.

BTW, NM cable is not code in my area.

I am pissed off. If she wants to play electrican than hats off but don't pick which part of being an electrican you want to be. If you aren't comfortable terminating the panel maybe you should be doing something else.

I guess I am good enough to finish the job BUT not worthy enough to handle the job from start to finish.

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't want to do any work in his house because of this situation but he is my next door neighbor.

The only thing that they will remember or care about will be wether or not you finsh the job. Even when you tell them you can't do it because it would put your license and therefore your ability to earn a living in jeopardy. What they'll be hearing is ahole neighbor blew us off.

I'd rather lose a neighbor than my license.

Are you holding a permit for this job? You have two choices, gently explain to them that you will need to "Start over" and why, or cancel your permit and explain your "Non-responsability" to the AHJ.

Take deep breaths....

Actually, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. What did you do wrong? You're not the bad guy here by any stretch, don't let them make you feel that way. You're a professional and your neighbor should've known better, but decided to save money using family for the majority of the work and decided to use you only where he has to.
You can always use the ole "My insurance company would dump me in a heartbeat if I connected someone else's work!" line. BTW, don't loan this neighbor any yard tools.
Andy

"You can always use the ole "My insurance company would dump me in a heartbeat if I connected someone else's work!"

That is a fact not an ole line, I had a situation where they rocked the walls, then called me, and asked for a tie in, They thought they were slick, but when the city made them gut everything, they got the idea.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 11-10-2005).]

If it is not going to be code conforming (the Romex)he simply can't touch it and still protect his license.
He can offer to start over but other than that I don't see an option.
The only other option would be to look over the work and red tag the mistakes, just as a friend, but that may still have his neck out.

Florida makes it pretty serious for a licensed person to get involved with unlicensed/unpermitted activity. A totally unlicensed person, even if they are selling their work, is actually in less trouble.

There is no permit.....

You're not stuck at all. You agreed to do the whole job, not a part of it. Tell them the NM isn't allowed & has to be removed. It'll be an extra charge if you have to remove it. If they push, say you won't be involved unless they pull a permit. The inspection covers you as well as them.

In this part of the country removal of NM isn't just a job, it's an adventure!

Dave

Come on sparky - Do the neighborly thing. Tell them you need to inspect what she did and if it's acceptable, finish the job! Of course you'll charge them for the inspection. Do you really want to be the "jerk neighbor?" Pick your fights, this doesn't seem to be the right one. (Especially if these are friendly neighbors)

Just re-read... Rx is not code?? what is? MC? Pipe? MIC?

Tell them you will do it under one condition. The sister has to become your slave for the rest of her life.

Lear,
many areas have NOT accepted RX as an approved wiring method (NYC for example). You can use AC/MC, EMT/IMC/RGS. Using RX is an area that DOES NOT allow it is tricky...in NYC you cannot even BUY RX. These people, literally, went out of their way to be cheap (RX vs. AC).

I would NOT trim-out the panel. I would explain to the HO and their "contractor" that the install is NOT code compliant and therefore I cannot complete the job - it's unconscionable.
I would further elaborate that while I want to be neighborly, this install WILL come back to haunt them - in the event there is a fire at some point, their HO insurance will NOT pay out on the claim; when it comes time to sell the place, any home inspector WILL "fail" it, if the city requires CO's (or some sort of inspection sale) it WILL fail; etc. This puts the onus on THEM...not YOU.

You could continue that completeing such a job will expose you to liabilities also.

I understand your frustrations (I am good enough to finish the job BUT not worthy enough to handle the job...)...but a little tact and dimplomacy may mend/save the friendship/neighborly and still get the job done properly.

True diplomacy is being able to tell someone to go to hell and have them look forward to the trip."
If you know what I mean...

I would start off by reminding the neighbor that you agreed to run the wires- not just tie them in. Explain that there are reasons for this- for example, your town doesn't allow certain materials.
Look at the job. Explain what you need to do. Give him a shopping list.

The guy might say "gosh, I'm sorry. I didn't know". Mistakes do happen.
Or, he might start arguing, saying no one will know, there's no inspector coming, that the stuff works fine, etc. Then you politely tell him to feel free to do it himself!

I hardly call putting your ass on the line for your neighbors picking a fight.

How you can say he became the "Jerk neighbor" is mind boggling.
Wow.

(Webmaster note: - small edit - c'mon Scott, no Politics ....)

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 11-11-2005).]

What Reno said... add a little blame on the insurance company (thanks, LK!) and you're covered.

If she's "good enough" to run the wire, the she better be "good enough" to finish the build... and put the burden of an illegal install on her own shoulders.

BTW - most of the Chicago area lakeshore towns (older than 1940) don't allow NM... we're all EMT/IMC/RMC/MC/Greenfield around here.

Celtic,
Although not directly the topic of conversation, but as of a few years ago, NYC permits NM cable.

Here is a good heads up on finished basements and helping neighbors, it appears an electrician helps finish a basement project, and since there was no premit pulled, there was no hardwire smoke installed, a candle left burning starts a fire, and a little girl never makes it out, they blamed her death on smokes not giving warning, 3Mil plus suit, jury agreed, so a little favor can be very costly, stoy at: www.app.com Search archives Family of fire victim to get $3.5M

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 11-12-2005).]

He (the neighbor) knows that the NM is not code. He's not worried about it because he doesn't plan on selling the house anytime soon.

So what are you going to do?

No good deed goes unpunished!

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 11-11-2005).]

Of course the neighbor isn't worried about it(NM not being code), he didn't do it. Someone else did( or didn't),your choice.

It seems to me that those facts pretty much point to the way to deal with this. You just tell him, "When you asked me to do this, I assumed that you would have the proper permits, and that that job would conform to the building codes. As a licensed EC, I cannot, and will not, work on an unpermitted job, in violation of Code. Were I to do so, I would risk loosing my profession, and my livelihood."

That must have been LAST year (2004), in 2003 I couldn't even buy RX or plastic boxes at a supply house in Staten Island.

Thanks for the notation - it may come in handy.

You know what my saying is: "everybody is an electrician but me"!