110v UL listed lights are rated safe for indoor and outdoor use but I am worried about how safe they actually are.
I want to put them in a hedge low down, but am worried that the hedge, when wet will become live as the bulb holders dont look that well sealed.

Any thoughts?

If you were to take a look around, I am sure you would see decorative lighting strung everywhere. Your concern is good to see, and as an EC your liability is always in the back of your mind. I would always go by gut instinct - sometimes losing a good job - but always sleeping well.

Your decision is really yours, as we cannot physically see these lights. If they are listed as outdoor rated, the hedge location could work, now you will have to make the final determination. Sorry this is not a pat answer, there are too many unseen variables for a yes or no answer.

Wouldn't placing these on a GFI receptacle eliviate the concern of the hedges becoming hot?

Dnk...

I think this is a far fetched idea. Install the lights and enjoy!

Hi there Out of Phase,
Welcome to ECN!.
I reckon a GFI would take care of that problem, although nuisance tripping could be an issue.

IF you intend to 'plug-in' the light strings, then it should be in a GFI. If you are installing the outlets to 'plug-into' then they have to be GFI, and if applicable have a weatherproof-while-in-use cover.

IMHO, if I received the request (as an EC), I would make sure the strings were GFI protected.

John

Thanks for the replys boys!
I already plan to plug them into a GFCI & it is already installed.
What my concern was, is that on the first leg of the first bulb 110v is present and because its so wet during the winter here the first bulb could become live to touch when sopping wet, but I guess even at 110v the ligths are safe for outside use even in the wet otherwise they would not manufacture and they would not list them. The GFCI would only trip out if someone was to actually touch the bulb as I don't think the hedge would act as a good enough path to ground for the GFCI to operate.

Many X-mas lights will have problems like described, i.e. allowing leakage current, or applying voltage to thing like shrubs with, or without a GFCI. With a GFCI you really can not bet on it to trip if a hazard presents itself. (I would not bet my life on it! In fact I have been shocked by some before in the rain, that were on a GFI.) Water, and electricity just don't mix well. If it is a liability issue, I would say no. Don't install the lighting. If it is a convieniance for some moron to do what they will do anyway, advise, and step back. Just because they are listed, or manufactured for the purpose, is NOT a guarantee of 100% safety. Personally, I would not operate, or handle them in the rain, or when wet. Like using the blow dryer in the shower or tub, just a bad idea, GFI or not. The fact that it has a GFI is only an added protection, NOT a guarantee of being safe from a darwin award. The hedge might not be a great conductor, but a small child touching it could be. Just my 2 cents.

Guys seriously, there are a bazillion (I just counted) Holiday lights (Don't want to offend) in use all over the country. No big deal.

I thought the bulbs wired in series reduced the voltage at each bulb to 1-2V. Isn't this what makes them safe?

More: http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Christmas99.PDF http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/ChristmasTrees.pdf


Also, another well know bit of trivia, the holidays are the season for electrical fires, and/or other electrical problems, that don't involve X-mas trees. Everyones home, and everything is on. Plus some inexpensive lighting and suplimental cords strung all around the house... Ask some of those Service Call type guys about things youd get called for on X-mas. Failed breakers, GFI's, lost neutrals, arching equipment failures, endless over-loaded circuits, you name it. X-mas and Thanksgiving are a stress test for the average household electrical system.

Anyway, not trying to be Ebinezer Scrooge, but would not trust them in easily accessible wet locations. You can barely trust them in dry hardly accessible locations.

The voltage across each bulb is low, but except for the few bulbs near one end of the chain they have a much higher voltage with respect to ground.

e.g. If you had 20 bulbs in series across a 120V supply, you would measure 6V across each filament. The voltage to ground though would be 6V at bulb #1, 12V at #2, 18V at #3, and so on. At the bulb nearest the hot side of the supply you would read 120V on one side of the filament and 114V on the other side.

Any time you remove a bulb from the chain you will then get 120V across the holder in question, as with no current flowing there is no voltage drop across the other bulbs.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 11-04-2005).]

Spot on Paul

About the worst electric shock I ever received was from a series-chain of fairy lights like this when I was about 13.

I was changing a bulb on the tree, and the holder disintegrated, pulling the wire off the center contact of the lampholder in the process. Somehow I managed to end up with the end of that wire in one hand and the now-bare screwshell of the holder in the other.

This was on British 240V, a chain of 20 series-connected 12V bulbs.

Youch!

Let me tell ya i've been a firefighter for 13 years and in uppermanagement of such. If they can't figure out what started it, its electrical, plane and simple and anywho who denies this is just covering up as they do!!!