I have had several different versions of this type of item. Bubble level conduit bending aids.

For example: (Haven't had this one..) http://www.maxistools.com/product/speedset/index.php

But have had a "No-dog". (a few times, experimented with it, lost it.)
And right now have a Greenlee with a simular condiut attacthment, which I don't use. I like it because it is a decent size torpedo level.

Anyway, question to you all is:
Are they of any real use to bend conduit?
Does anyone use these effectively using hand benders?

Or is it me? I find that these levels attatched to a coduit being bent, could only work if you also had a level on your bender to match it up to. Right? I seem to make more dog-legs with, than without it. Only time it works right, is with a fixed hydralic bender.

I have a no-dog also and rarely use it. I wouldn't even go to the truck for it unless I was doing a large offset. I thought it would be more useful when I got it.

Dave

Bending is just something that takes practice. I have the little Ideal bender book and it is all you need besides a good eye.

Funny thing about bending pipe....the best "aids" seem to be part of the the job site!

My truck's "utility body" provides me with several places where I can see if my bends are square, or measure my offsets.

And the brick walls, or door frames, on many a site have helped with the same functions.

I have a No-Dog that I use, but just on rigid or large pipe, mostly for multi-shot bends or occasionally for parallel saddles and offsets if the work is going to show. When it's going to be seen and it has to match in appearance I put the dog on. I also use the travel method for making matched bends. (Not for hand bends)
Travel method description:
When you bend any angle the travel distance is equal to the # of degrees and so you can calculate inches of travel per degree (usually a fraction of an inch per degree). To use the travel method, pick (or create) a fixed point on the bender about a foot back from the back of the shoe. After the conduit is loaded into the bender and ready to bend, place a mark at the fixed point. Make the bend and before you release the pressure make a second mark on the conduit at the fixed point. When you take the piece out of the bend use a protractor to measure the exact angle and then measure the distance between the 2 marks. That distance is proportional to the number of degrees of the bend.
If your first mark winds up in the bend and is no longer on the straight portion of the pipe then you need to pick a “fixed point” farther back from the shoe. I have attached a piece of all-thread to a bender with a #6 wire arm at the end that I could swing into position so that it lays on the top of the conduit while I make the mark.
So let’s say you bend a 1” and get 11 inches of travel in an 89 degree bend, that’s about 8 degrees of bend for each inch of travel or 0.124” per degree. So a 30 degree bend would be 30* 0.124 or 3.7 inches. If you want to bend a 30 degree offset, lay out the offset and load the conduit into the bender. Make a mark at the “Fixed point” and make another mark 3.7” back. Bend the conduit until the second mark travels to the fixed point. Your bend should be 30 degrees, and every bend you make using the same method with 3.7” will be exactly the same as every other bend. Most of the time when you make a bend it isn’t exactly the number of degrees you were trying for and you have to massage the piece to your liking. With the travel method you will have very little need to add additional work to the piece. Yes it takes a bit longer but if the work is going to show then it is worth ever bit of that extra effort.


[This message has been edited by Ray97502 (edited 08-01-2005).]

OOPS

[This message has been edited by Ray97502 (edited 08-01-2005).]

The thing for me that makes pipe bending better and easier is the right conduit.

Some places sell the pipe with the red line down the whole pipe, forget what it is called, but that makes things easier.

I hate when the manufacturers print machine goes haywire, and the lettering is messed up. I used to use that as a basis, but learned the hard way to check it before bending.

Anyone know of a after market marking machine or similiar out there. Something you can put pipe in and it will draw a line on one side of two sides of the pipe?


Dnk....

If you spend all day running multiple runs of pipe, a "no-dog" AND a protractor are must have tools.
If you are running the occasional pipe...good luck.
After running a few thousand feet of 4" RGS, 3/4" EMT is a joke.

Can't see how a level is going to help you bend conduit. It's only going to be level or plumb when it's in place and that depends on how you bend it.

Some places sell the pipe with the red line down the whole pipe, forget what it is called, but that makes things easier.

My supply house gets top dollar for some junk that is made in South America and smells like cat urine. Connectors don't even fit sometimes. And you're looking for a straight printed line?

-Hal

Yes, the straight printed line. I used some recently. I think it is called "slick silver" or "silver stick", or maybe niether. I forget.

What I would be intersted in though is a unit that would take evrything from say 4" down that you could slide pipe in and it would draw a straight line down the pipe.

Boy would that make my poor eyesite better to bend pipe.

Dnk........
(editted cause I'm a bonehead typer)

[This message has been edited by Dnkldorf (edited 08-01-2005).]

Average pipe job for my shop is ~4000'+.

Like I said, I have had them, and experimented with them only. Don't really use it, but wondered if others did. I have several other methods for the same effect, which are habitual by nature at this point. Can do most by eye better than with anything else just siteing down the side of the first bend. For more complicated, matching, or rolling bends I also use the line method.

Dnk.... "Something you can put pipe in and it will draw a line on one side of two sides of the pipe?" You only need one once you get some good notches on the bender.

(I have attempted to draw what I mean by notches )

A good chalk-line, not the ones that snaps a 1/4" wide fuzzy line with too much chalk.
Or, pencil/sharpie... Find the top of the conduit with the point, lock up your hand with a knuckle on the side, and side the point down the length of pipe you need to bend and a few inches more in both directions. Works really well with some practice.

The "silver stick" stuff is totaly unreliable. Often see the line go all the way around the conduit, what good is that?
Anyway, i too have often thoght about something to simplify drawing that line in the field.... Maybe it's time to invent one?

Reno... "Funny thing about bending pipe....the best "aids" seem to be part of the the job site!" Oh, sooo true..., unless what ever it is isn't square.

I"m begining to get ideas. You know those strait line lasers they are selling cheap in all the hardware stores nowadays? Maybe use one of those for "chalk line" along the pipe and just trace the line with a pencil. P.S. my pet peeve is sharpie lines on conduit. I allway's make my marks in pencil, and erase them after the bend is completed.

E57, I agree with the unreliable response on the silver stick. I used to use the printed words, till I found them going all the way around the pipe. The batches of the silver stick, were much better.

Maybe I got good batches at the time.

Anyway, the idea I had would draw a line straight down the pipe with either a heavy lead pencil, of even a sharpie that wasn't permanent. Something easily wiped off with Simple green on a rag.

I figure all I need is a colaspable 4" collar and some type of Dc motor as a feed system. You could put a stick at a time in and it would feed and mark for you.


Wouldn't it be cool if you could hook up a paint system like this too?

Think of the possibilities of running pipe in color?

I am just finishing a job, ran about 2500' of pipe, and of course scrapped some due to doglegs, and misbends on my part, but the line thing would of really helped with the rolling offsets, and the 4 pointers.


Thanks for the drawings, I'll tinker with the idea on the next job.

Dnk.....

"scrapped some due to doglegs"
Why throw them away, straighten them out, unless they're real bad.

Good way to straighten them out, is a good tweaking.

Lay offending bend on the floor, bowed side up. Then stand on the offending bend. Then lift, and release the conduit snapping it against the floor, until it makes the "right" sound. After a few years of doing it, you'll know what the "right" sound is. Or just check your progress.

Another method (on 30's - 90's) is to put your bender back into the offending bend, and lay it on the floor. Stand on the other bend, and use bender to tweak it. Of course this only works on 1/2 and 3/4 emt, everything else you're SOL.

For larger off-sets you may need a passer-by to stand on the bend.

I tryed some of the methods you described, but after playing with them, I decided to bend a new piece.

The heat was getting to me, and I was getting frustrated, probably due to dehydration.

Cut my losses and move on..


Dnk........

Back when I started we would use a short piece of unistrut and a magnetic torpedo level when we were useing a Chicago or 555 bender.What we do is fasten the strut to one side of the pipe plumb the strut bend roll the pipe 180 and repete the process. Never used a no-dog with a hand bender.