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Posted By: leespark California codes - 05/28/05 01:58 AM
I'm trying to help out my sister in law who is doing a kitchen remodel in Southern California. Since I'm 3000 miles away it would be cost prohibitive for her to hire me!

She asked me for some suggestions regarding the lighting manufacturers I use and the placement of the lights. I use Lightolier recessed lights here in Mass. but I'm not sure if it is a regional thing. Is Lightolier sold in California? I've heard things regarding the energy codes in California so perhaps only certain manufacturers are allowed there? I also like Juno for recessed and Kichler for the xenon undercabinet lights. It sounds like the contractor isn't too thrilled with my input but I wasn't too thrilled with his lighting plan so I want to do what I can to help her.

Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: California codes - 05/28/05 02:28 AM
I know you are trying to help but if someone three thousand miles away were telling you how to do your job wouldn't you find it a little bit annoying. By the way Lightolier stinks! Just my opinion. [Linked Image] My advice for her would be to go to a lighting showroom for their input. It is probably too hard for you to make recomendations without knowing what is available in her area.
Posted By: leespark Re: California codes - 05/28/05 03:45 AM
They don't even have an electrician yet, how am I trying to tell him how to do his job?? The GC scribbled 8 recessed lights in the most bizarre locations in the middle of the room. Since she asked me and she's the one shelling out the 75K I'll help. Or should I say "gee I'd really like to help but I don't want to annoy some guy I've never met".
Posted By: William Runkle Re: California codes - 05/28/05 07:10 AM
You mentioned in your post that the contractor wasn't to thrilled with your input you didn't state it was a general contractor and the way it sounds now is coming with a bid on the job sounds like no prints are drawn up and he is just getting a feel for the total cost of project. This is my suggedstion ask for a kitchen lay out printy and draw in what you feel is needed and a total break down of materials with the statement of being comprable within their codes. So the general can submit to elecectrical bids for the cost of this project. My opinion is to stay out of it if you put your 2 cents into it which you stated your not the one to pay this addition your sister is then if you make alot of change orders could be higher cost to your sister. Also you have iritated this general as you said in your post and any more input could have them pull off the job and your sister hanging in a dilema without occupancy permit and this general might spread the word out about this job to avoid, so she might have to hire the carpenters from the T.V. Show Green Acres and they will probably bring Arnold with them. And it also sounds that you have a good relationship now but what if you go to far with these contractors and they say more and more money because Brother 3000 miles away costed you?
Posted By: leespark Re: California codes - 05/28/05 11:38 AM

Easy there fella! Back up a little.

The entire point of my original post was to ask if companies like Lightolier or Kischler are acceptable and/or available in California.

"This is my suggedstion ask for a kitchen lay out printy and draw in what you feel is needed and a total break down of materials with the statement of being comprable within their codes. So the general can submit to elecectrical bids for the cost of this project."

That is EXACTLY what I am doing now. I'm faxing it back with where I would put the lights and the manufacturers I would use. Then I'm DONE. I have no interest in getting involved any further! I have a business to run here which already is like juggling 16 balls at the same time.

She's a single mom aksing me for a suggestion just to get some feedback before she signs the contract.

Change orders? Green Acres? Arnold?

All I want to know is if you can use/get Lightoiler in California?
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: California codes - 05/28/05 11:47 AM
So when you asked for opinions you really didn't want any? Sorry about that buddy. [Linked Image]
Posted By: dmattox Re: California codes - 05/28/05 11:53 AM
I'm actually using some Lightoiler Fixtures on a tilt-up project I'm doing in SoCal.

Becareful with what you call out, California has made some major changes to residential title 24 issues that if I remember right go into effect in Augest. There was a post about this a while back.

Just make sure that you conform to it, so that your sister doesnt have to pay for redoing it when the inspector goes by the new rules.
Posted By: leespark Re: California codes - 05/28/05 01:43 PM

Thanks for the response. I had a feeling there may be some energy code issues in Ca. that may restrict the type of fixture (air seal etc.). I'll check on thet Title 24.

Thanks again
Posted By: dmattox Re: California codes - 05/28/05 03:03 PM
I couldnt find the original post, but here is a link that shows you what the state now wants:

Take a look at the presentation.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: California codes - 05/28/05 03:20 PM
You can see the original thread by e57 here .
Posted By: dmattox Re: California codes - 05/29/05 01:31 AM
I searched a while for it, e57 had a typo with California darnit!! :P
Posted By: sierra electrician Re: California codes - 05/29/05 01:46 AM
Why don't you send your sister all Mfg & Part # info? Any lighting supplier worth a darn can cross referance all to "Equal" fixture.

Posted By: Trumpy Re: California codes - 05/29/05 04:26 AM
I see what you mean Dave,
Califoria sounds like a new party drug. [Linked Image]
Posted By: e57 Re: California codes - 05/29/05 08:11 AM
Yaeh, Shelin' Tieping Nut suo goad.

Half the time I'm hopped up on coffee, the other half I'm winding down with a bottle of Chimay, or glass of scotch before the wife rings the dinner bell, so my posts can be a mixed bag.

Anyway, one should check with the local AHJ for how and when they will enforce, but the state will start in October I believe, but your permits may be in some "crossing the line" limbo.

In short form the design criteria is this:

Dimmers on everything!

Flouresant (MS?) in the kit 100% unless you want trouble.

Flouresant (MS?) in baths, except if you want some control work in your future,
(I have the standard plan for compliance on this!)

And Flouresant (MS?) lights outside. Or 15,000 watts of "landscape lighting", thats OK?!

Air-tight IC cans shipped down from Washington State, anywhere cans are used.
(It will be cheaper to ship them from there for a while)

Bottom line, is avoid using cans in Baths, Kitchens, or Outside, unless you really like Flouresant (MS?)Light! And Stock up on cheap surface mount Flouresant (MS?)fixtures!

Here's another link to check out:

I told a few designers and arch's, and they didn't like it the "old" way, they are "doomed" the new world order way, that is soon to come. And, I am sure that it will catch a few EC's off guard in the begining too.

Anyway, Leespark, anything you can get there, we can get here. Whether or not you can use it, and if it might cost more here, is a different story.

You want to save your sis some money... Don't spec' the lights from there. Without knowing more about local standards / enforcement, and cost differance of fixtures, could cost her more!

(I hear, Lightolier is cheaper there due to shipping and legal costs... [Linked Image] No something about our special ballast and state certification costs.)

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 05-29-2005).]
Posted By: renosteinke Re: California codes - 05/29/05 05:02 PM
A little off the topic, but the ways California finds to be different are many and profound.
Here in Reno, we have miles of warehouses, each of which are divided into "California legal" and "everywhere else" sections. Trucks have to be re-tasked, as California has vastly different highway rules than every other state west of the Mississippi (2000+ miles).

Likewise, California electricians have certain practices, and assumptions, as to what the code requires, that are somewhat different than what the NEC actually calls out. Not that they're bad guys, mind you, but California seems intent on differentiating themselves from the rest of the US.

There are significant differences in the way things are built "out west" as compared to "back east." For example, in California windowsills are non-existant, and screens seem to be a unique affectation of recent arrivals!

So, sure, help your sister. It will help a lot if you have a friendly relationship with the electrician- the GC you're sister is dealing with seems a bit confrontational. It is almost certain that what you specify will be a little different and a little more costly than the contractors' "usual," but she'll get a much better system in the deal.

One final detail: The newer t-5 and t-8 fixtures come with "bluer" bulbs than folks are accustomed designers often specify the yuckiest yellow paint- which looks 'normal' under these lights.
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