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Posted By: GovtVoltage Smoke Detector Liability - 03/30/05 08:20 PM
Hey guys, listen to this story. Something to definitely think about. I went for my Code Refresher last Summer(last available before the deadline,as usual). Been thinking about this a lot.

We had a speaker come in to talk about Smoke Detectors and other fire related issues such as Fire wall Penetrations.

Short story long.......The story goes as this....Joe Sparky does electrical work to include Hard Wired Smokes in single family residence.

Middle of the night they go off. Woman who was on second floor in bed looks around....nothing. Goes to first floor......nothing. They are still going off, so she opens the basement door and she is overcome by smoke and she dies in the fire.

The electrician was found liable.

The reason: He did not "brief" the homeowner that when the smokes activated, you are supposed to leave the house immediately. The instructions with the smokes supposedly address this.

Most of us thought this was common sense, but the guy said it was a true story. God Bless the Lawyers.
Posted By: earlydean Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/30/05 09:06 PM
I find this story impossible to believe.
Posted By: pdh Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/30/05 09:32 PM
Having seen a number of really screwed up court rulings, some by juries, and some bu judges, I find it entirely plausible to believe one or two cases like this really could happen. Others equally stupid really have happened.
Posted By: Dnkldorf Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/30/05 10:20 PM
How did the courts know, he did not brief her?

She's dead.......
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/30/05 10:36 PM
No way is this true. NO WAY!
Posted By: SolarPowered Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/30/05 11:51 PM
I agree with Dnkldorf. While I can believe that the courts and juries are stupid enough to make such a ruling, how do they know she went searching around the second floor, and then around the first floor, and then to the basement? And how do they know the electrician didn't brief her? She didn't tell them--she's dead. So the story just isn't credible, as least as it's told.
Posted By: Roger Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/30/05 11:57 PM
I go with Dnkldorf too.

Although, in todays world, I would not say it is impossible for a jury to find this way. [Linked Image]

GovtVoltage, welcome to the forum.


Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 03-30-2005).]
Posted By: iwire Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 12:01 AM
I would not be all that surprised if this was true.

Logic has little to do with jury decisions.

Burnt by a hot cup of coffee and win money.

Take a look at some of the cases on this web site.

http://www.power-of-attorneys.com/StupidLawsuit.htm
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 12:56 AM
I can't look at that web site as I will become infuriated. Stuff like that really gets me. Almost as much as a dopey idea like charging you a toll to drive into the City of Boston. No, not a toll on a particular road or bridge (ridiculous enough) a toll to enter the city itself. Friggin brilliant. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Roger Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 01:01 AM
Scott, common sense died and rational thinking is in bad shape.

Roger
Posted By: Zapped Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 01:43 AM
Appauling, however not entirely unplausible. They may have asked the electrician if he had advised her in some fashion that was unthreatening to him, and he answered honestly with no idea that he was liable to take the fall.

I think common sense in this country isn't the only thing being lost, personal responsibility is being left by the side of the road by lawyers seeking new summer homes in the Hamptons.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 03:12 AM
Quote
as a dopey idea like charging you a toll to drive into the City of Boston
Well, ... I heard it is the Home of the World Champs .... (someone even had that on their signature)

[Linked Image]
Bill
Posted By: Steve Miller Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 11:28 AM
We call those "Stella" rulings. Named after the woman who sued McDonalds when she spilled the hot coffee on herself.
And Dnkldorf ... that's tacky; but I agree. I would swear I did brief her, who's gonna argue?
Posted By: DougW Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 05:33 PM
Well, surely he included the accompanying documentation from the smoke detector packaging, right? Just like any of us would from a newly installed GFCI receptacle, or a ceiling fan, or any appliance...

I'm sure there are instructions about what to do if the detectors sound in that literature.

He provided the documentation - it's not his fault she chose not to read it.
Posted By: Dnkldorf Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 06:10 PM
Tacky you say....
This would be tacky.....

If you crossed a busy street and got hit, are you going to blame the automakers, for not "briefing" you on the physics of matter colliding with human flesh?

As unfortunuate as her death was, if it really happened, I would write that and some others off, as mother natures way of "natural selection".


Dnk......
Posted By: GovtVoltage Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 08:54 PM
Judging from the response I have touched a nerve.

Let me contact the speaker from the class and see if he has some backup information.

I know it is kind of hard to believe and all of the guys in the class thought the same way..........Let me get back to you!
Posted By: Dnkldorf Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 09:02 PM
You didn't touch any nerves.
We are having fun with it......


Dnk......
Posted By: Alan Belson Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 03/31/05 09:03 PM
Do you have TV ads in the US by law firms touting business from 'victims' to sue for trivial injuries? All the below won their cases and got substantial settlements.
The UK best has to be the guy who exclaims to camera-
"I was carrying a bucket of hot tar,when I tripped over a piece of wood that shouldn't have been there!"
My response- Whassat piece of wood doing on a CONSTRUCTION SITE!!! Look out for that tar, Joe, it's kinda HOT!!!
Other favorites-
Moron, prostrated on top of a fallen ladder on concrete, utters the immortal line "They gave me the wrong sort of ladder!" He was shown seconds earlier attempting to drill a hole 15 feet up a concrete wall on the most rickity wooden ladder you've ever seen- the producer must have borrowed it from the Science Museum Stonhenge Diorama.
My response. You down there! No hard hat!
You're fired!
A huge and hauntingly ugly young woman slips on a wet floor in foyer of office block. After her legs go off in different directions, she goes down like a beached whale. From her purse bursts forth literally dozens of (redundant!) face creams, deodorants, lipsticks, mascaras, foundations perfumes etc. "After my operation" she burbles, "I got £*000 compensation from my employer."
My response. Don't you mean EX-employer?
Any US favorites?
Posted By: Joey D Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 04/01/05 01:03 AM
I was told the exact same thing in my last code reveiw which was the last available as well. I was in Woburn Electrical with Bob M and he had a guy come in for a few of the nights. The story was told to me that the electrician didn't offer any instruction with the install, as in the alarm goes of leave the house and call from a cell or a neighbors phone, and he testified to this that he didn't give any detail on what to do in the event of an alarm.
Since that class I tell all customers the leave the home and call the fire dept no exceptions.
Kind of stupid if you ask me as I can remember Daffy Duck doing comercials about what to do when the alarm goes off or you smell smoke. Check doors for heat, don't hide under the bed or in the closet, escape routes and a meeting spot.
Nothing has changed as far as responsability I guess, no one wants it.
Posted By: Tom H Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 04/03/05 07:59 PM
About a year or so ago I stopped offering smoke detectors as part of my roughing package, informing my customers that they would be better served for life safety by hiring a fire/security company to install and pay them for monthly monitoring. I explained to them the benifit of this. Lost 1 job because of it.
Posted By: LK Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 04/04/05 12:52 AM
Make sure you check to see, if anyone in the home has hearing problems, it may be necessary to add strobes.
Also the placement is critical, and any ommisions can cost you, instruct and always leave the instructions.
Posted By: macmikeman Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 04/04/05 03:12 AM
One thing I always do is make the customers supply the smokes I have to install. That way if they do not work at least I didn't supply them.
Posted By: e57 Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 04/04/05 08:15 AM
I used to joke around, saying "Yeah, that ladies lookin' to call 1-800-law-suit."

Well, I don't watch TV much, and was absolutely horrified to see an actual commercial with that as their number.
"Injured on the job - been in an accident? - Call 1-800-law-suit."

Anyway, I see it as completely plausable. Schyster Lawyer asks, "Did you give any instruction?" - Honest Abe says "no...", and gets sued.

Remember OJ was AQUITTED FOR MURDER! But sued later.....
Posted By: Joey D Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 04/04/05 09:49 PM
Just a thought, I have additional insurance to cover me for burglar and fire alarm installs. Do most general liability insurance plans cover fire alarms? Or is it 120v smokes are covered under the gerenal policy and low voltage systems need the additional coverage?
Posted By: cavo148 Re: Smoke Detector Liability - 04/05/05 01:01 AM
In my experience working for a large contractor for a time with several trades on the payroll, the lawyers always put as many parties on notice as possible, hence third-parties etc. with deep pockets and plenty of insurance to go after. They throw that net out far and wide. Your insurance company will then insist on your cooperation so they can "help" you, when actually they're looking for a way out for themselves.
BTW, I always gave the printed instructions and warranty cards to the HO's for smokes, GFCIs, etc., but I suppose I should have them sign for them these days, eh?!
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