ECN Forum
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 03:10 PM
I have a couple of questions, and would appreciate your thoughts on them.

1. Why should a company learn about the 2002 NEC and all of the changes, if their state will not adopt the 2002 NEC for another 3 years or more?

2. What is the role of the NEC in a State or City that does not adopt the NEC, but has their own like in New York and Chicago?

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 10-18-2001).]
Posted By: Tom Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 03:44 PM
This is an opinion, but I don't think that it hurts, from a liability standpoint, to be able to say that the work was installed to the latest standard.

As for NY & Chicago, do their codes cover every aspect of electrical work? If they don't, the NEC would certainly be a good place to look for guidance on a particular project.

Tom
Posted By: WARREN1 Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 04:45 PM
I agree with Tom. The installation will be per the latest Code, and probably justifiable in a courtroom, where most of don't want to be. The problem with such an installation will be with the AHJ. He has to enforce the former Code. The new installation by the newer Code may be viewed as a violation. And how do you argue your case to the AHJ? do you in fact take him to court? and on what premise?
I am not familiar with NY or Chicago codes, but my guess is that they are more stringent than the NEC. The NEC gives us only a minimum safety for the use of electricity. It does not provide for the most efficient use of electricity, the one thing I wish it would include.
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 05:30 PM
Tom and Warren:

Thanks for your input. I also believe that the industry may want to train their people in the new code because they may have customers in other States that do adopt the NEC as soon as it becomes available.

Companies may want to use the latest code as a best practice to protect their buildings, equipment and staff.
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 05:36 PM
Tom,
Does WV actually adopt the code through legislation? If so, when?

I've been told that there are no WV laws stating adoption of the NEC, but this is old info. and much has changed since, with a new Fire Marshall, Governor, etc...

Just curious, my suspicions are that WV does not adopt at all...
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 06:08 PM
Joe,

Do you mean NY City? rather than NY State?

Bill
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 06:44 PM
Bill:

I meant NYC. I edited my message. What electrical code does the State use use?
Posted By: sparky Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 11:16 PM
1)I have talked to sparky's on line that are still using the 96' , yet i beleive they are getting thier CEU's on the 02'. Thier OJT is stunted by 4 yrs or so.

2) Are these 'additions' to the NEC ?
Posted By: bordew Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/18/01 11:56 PM
1. I would think it prudent for any company to learn the 2002 regardless if the state doesnt use it. IMO it would be not be wise, to be nice, for them not to When you look at the many people who have input into the Code every year and cycle, I cant see how any state would have that many qualified people to input that kind of information.
If a State does have its own code where did it come from, and who wrote it or was it copied from an NEC. Tom makes a very valid point, Liability, and I would think that anything less than the NEC would be nothing but trouble for the city or town.
Posted By: Jim M Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/19/01 12:20 AM
Where I work in MD, (Baltimore Metro area) one jurisdiction is still using the '93 while the rest are using the 99 and soon the 02 Code.

I take the update classes so I will know what will be accepted in most areas. When I do work under the old Code I need to refresh myself on the old way of doing things. This is a pain on the changes that affect bathrooms and the like. I need to change my way of thinking.

I have worked in one county that will not accept a ufer ground. They say they don't have enough electrical inspectors and the building inspectors won't check for the wire on a footing inspection. It's not their job, it's electrical. How do you deal with 'logic' like that? Oh well, at least they use a Code.
Posted By: sparky Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/19/01 10:57 AM
I've been told 'adoption lag' is due to state dept inspectors. paperwork, etc. needing time to catch up. Nobody's going to cut us contractors any slack if we have'nt been updated. I mean...the 93'! geeez...!
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/19/01 12:35 PM
Joe,

Sorry, I don't know anything about what codes are accepted where in NY. Up until recently I thought that acceptance of a new code was automatic here and everywhere except for some major cities requiring special regulations. With all this cyber-contact I'm learning otherwise. [Linked Image]

Rationale would be: On a simplistic viewpoint why wouldn't they use what was considered to be the most up-to-date and safest set of guidelines?

Bill
Posted By: Tom Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/20/01 12:33 AM
Virgil (Sparky66WV),

Yes, WV gets around to it sooner or later, I think it comes as an edict from the Fire Marshall, but I could be wrong.

The following makes interesting reading, the WV entry is disgustingly short, http://www.neca-neis.org/catalog/
click on "State Electrical Regulations" it is a free PDF download.

Tom
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/20/01 12:51 AM
Thanks, Tom.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/20/01 03:36 AM
Tom,

Ny is even shorter ..

"No Statewide Electrical Code" - that's it!

Bill
Posted By: Redsy Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/20/01 11:26 AM
#1-
A company that doesn't routinely get electrical work inspected (such as a manufacturing or other industrial or municipal facility) CAN "instantly" adopt the latest NEC. These type of places usually have a maintenance manager or other type of group leader that can simply insist that all work conform to the latest edition. I think some of the lag associated with municipality adoption is due to red-tape. They probably SHOULD do so because the assumption is that each new NEC is "new and improved". So, why wait if you don't have reason to?

#2--
As far as the role of the NEC in areas with local codes. I always thought that the NEC was as used as a foundation for these local codes, and therefore, their codes include the NEC, along with requirements that are above and beyond the "minimum" put forth by it.
Posted By: sparky Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/20/01 11:37 AM
Redsy,
Mass would be an example of your #2, having ammended the NEC to include a Mass cover, and small things like insulated staples, etc.
Posted By: nesparky Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/20/01 07:05 PM
The 02 code will be adopted in NE. about jul 02. The reason is our unicameral legislature will not meet untill Jan. The senators will hold thier committe meetings and then floor action when they adopt the 02 code into the state electrical act. Any other changes to the act will be discussed and acted upon then. Then the governor sign the bill. 90 days later it's law.
The time it takes is not unreasonable and it gives plenty of time to get up to speed to work by the new code.
This same type of action will or won't occur as the local or state agencies do thier jobs. How well who knows?
Some places have an agency such as a state electrical board who will work for the changes. Some don't want to be bothered.
Posted By: johngeorge Re: Adoption of the NEC - 10/21/01 12:40 PM
Joe:
In response to youe question about the New York State electrical standard used, it is the 1996 NEC. This can be verified by checking Subchapter G Reference Standards 1250.2 - RS 51-2 of the NYS building code.
Surprising isn't it.
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