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Posted By: eswets 3 way switching - 03/01/05 04:30 AM
I didn't really know were to post this, because It is a code question and what you guys do out in the field.
When is it required to use 3 way switches in rooms? Does every entry into the room need a switch for the light?
I am looking at a 8500sft house and the prints do not have any electrical on them. I am trying to mark the print for the electrical. Lots of the rooms have three to four ways to enter. Would you guys install 3or4 way switches at every entry point?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 06:46 AM
The only place I know of that implys 3 ways are required is on stairways.
Posted By: bucketman Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 06:58 AM
got sencers?
Posted By: Trumpy Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 08:01 AM
eswets,
What I would do if you are unsure, is call the people that are going to live in the house.
Get a photo-copy of the house plans and work out with them where they would like everything put.
Regardless of wether there is a plan or not, I do this with every new place I wire.
It just saves time after the place is lined and you also win a few points with the HO too.
Personally, I'd allow for 3-ways in the bedrooms, ask them where they are going to have the head of the bed and put a switch or a dimmer there, there is nothing more annoying than having to get out of bed to turn out the light or turn it on without getting out of bed.
This is not a Code thing, just a matter of convenience.
You should be able to control the lights of any given room from all entrance/exit points, go for 3-Way + Intermediates, if you have to.
Just my 2c worth. [Linked Image]
Posted By: safetygem Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 11:55 AM
I agree with Mike...
Quote
there is nothing more annoying than having to get out of bed to turn out the light or turn it on without getting out of bed.

I guess that's why they make "throw" pillows. [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 12:01 PM
Here in England it used to be fairly common at one time to find a 3-way arrangement for a bedroom light with a pull-cord switch or hanging pendant switch positioned over the bed. It seems to have gone out of fashion though.

Certainly on any large living area, I think it's a good idea to provide a switch at each entry/exit point.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 03:55 PM
I thought the OP was asking about "code". Certainly it is nice to have a 3way at the bed. I also put quads on both sides of the bed, one a half hot on another 3way. This way I can control the table lamps and overhead from the bed or the door. You don't ever seem to have enough receptacles next to the bed. The cost was minimal but this is my house and I wasn't trying to shave a bid.
Posted By: Dave55 Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 06:09 PM
If you're competetive-bidding the plan, you're wasting your time. Someone else will bid it with switched outlets and come in way under your bid. Send it back to the GC or architect so everone is bidding on the same plan.

Dave
Posted By: eswets Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 06:54 PM
I wish the architect would put the electrical on the print. I don't get a to add a design fee. It's not my job to mark up the print. But this is how it goes. I usually always get his work, but he does compare with other companies. Since the prints are empty, he is comparing apple to oragnes.

Actualy, there is some electrical on the print, but swithes are in the middle of the wall, 5 outlets in a hall but one in the bedroom. This is just to get the permits.
Posted By: SJT Re: 3 way switching - 03/01/05 07:44 PM
Sounds like a Big house. What size service?
Posted By: Active 1 Re: 3 way switching - 03/02/05 12:32 AM
8500 sf is a lot of electrical designing for no $$. That sort of thang has happened to us with the below results after we waisted out time making drawings:

A. We figure in too much on our drawings and loose out to someone offering less.
B. Get the job. They end up using a designers electric drawings. Then we need to rebid it out with the new drawings.
C. Think we have the job. Meet with customer about design changes. Redo the drawings and bid then it fall thru.

I like it when the village rejects the blueprint electrical. Then you might get a code compliant drawing to bid on.

Unless I had a relationship with who you bidding to I would not waist my time. Think about it. There may be a few EC waisting hours of work to get a job that someone did not want to pay for a real electric print.

You can still give them a number to try and stay in the game. You could give them a price scedule for new construction. Or try to figure a number based on SF as a starting point $4.50-$5. No cans and these appliances with this service min code starting at $$$. Tell them you will be happy to meet with the customers and design a custom layout for $$$.

As for 3w switches depends on the town. Some want every entrance. Hallways some want a switch 3' from a door, others want 6', where some only have one on that end of the hall. I do a lot of 3w for conveniance, no inspector problems, and cause I get paid by the switch.

Tom
Posted By: rogersan Re: 3 way switching - 03/05/05 02:36 AM
Tell them you can engineer/design their electrical plans for a set fee that you will take off a portion of at bid price if they award contract to you. You can build your bid to make back this discount if you so desire then you get the job and if you don't you still get paid. If they are agreeable you could do it for T & M but I find this is usually a headache and they will want a ballpark. You could also establish a price for cans, outlets etc and tell them the prices for Kit. hr's etc is extra $$$ and the outlet count is the price if they want to walk it and add as you go you make out ok.
Posted By: hurk27 Re: 3 way switching - 03/05/05 06:10 AM
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gfretwell: The only place I know of that implies 3 ways are required is on stairways.

I don't see where 210.70(A)(2)(c) requires 3-ways, as one could install a light at each location that would light the stairs. and install a single pole switch to control each light at each floor level. I just think it's more convenient to use 3/4-ways?


Quote
210.70(A)(2)(c) Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entry way, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.

[This message has been edited by hurk27 (edited 03-05-2005).]
Posted By: Indcom Re: 3 way switching - 03/05/05 12:44 PM
That's a fine idea - except if you were leaving the house - wouldn't you have to walk back upstairs to turn off the light @ the 1-pole switch and then down the stairs again to turn off the downstair light...or vice-versa. Or were you just planning on leaving the Upstairs light on while you were gone or the Downstair light on after you go to bed?

Or am I missing something here?

Seems to me that switching stairway lights with a 3-way is the more preferred wiring means.

[This message has been edited by Indcom (edited 03-05-2005).]
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 3 way switching - 03/05/05 04:24 PM
I doubt you will slide the single pole solutions past plan review or the inspector ... if they see it.
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