Just curious:

Do you guys have the same problems with builders that we have in England? Do you regard them, as we often do, with utter contempt for the stupid things they do?

Just as any other profession has good and bad, we've got good and bad builders.
My best friends and my worst enemies are builders.
I try not to broadbrush them, but if they do something really stupid I try to avoid them in the future. If they do something unethical, dangerous, or dishonest I hate them relentlessly.

Fair comment. Obviously we have some good builders here as well, but I find that large numbers of the seem to be completely lacking in any common sense when it comes to electrical matters. OK, they're not electrical experts, but I just sometimes wonder how they can work around electricians so often and STILL come up with such crazy ideas.

An example:

I was working with a local builder refurbishing an old Victorian house. A wall light was to removed, and in fact it practically fell off the wall as soon as I touched it. The connections were so loose that they fell apart as well, leaving the bare (still-energized) wires sticking out of the wall.

Naturally, I pulled the fuse and went in search of the other end of the cable to isolate it. The builder's suggestion on how to save time?

"Just shove it back into the wall and I'll plaster over it!"

Hmm...

Pauluk,

That guy would fit right in with some guys I know here in the Mountain State.

Yep, I gather from Virgil's posts that you often find some pretty shaky wiring in WV.

LOL!
the ..
'just make it work'

mentality is alive & well universally

Oh yes......

I've even seen a builder disconnect the main earthing lead to the rod - with power still on - because it was in his way, despite the warning tags we usually put on the clamps.

I wonder what part of "SAFETY ELECTRICAL CONNECTION - DO NOT REMOVE" he didn't understand?

I've had more service calls involving demolishion & sawsalls with builders, it's a wonder they walk away from some incidents.

My pet peeve is when they take it upon themselves to do some of our work for us... like removing staples to change the location of a wire that was in their way...

That one really gets me... (I use my dikes for staple removal, avoiding contact with the cable... they use clawhammers, screwdrivers, whatever, and aren't so careful... )

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 09-10-2001).]

my personal peeve with the builder is the drywall hangers. no matter how far i push the wires back into the box they manage to pulverize them. i normally try to leave a bit of excess in the wall to compensate their ignorance but then that can be costly.
....i thought about connecting the temporary power to a couple outlet box to break them..!
ha! ha! any suggestions? ken m

I have the same problem with some builders and especally drywallers. I just send them a bill for a minimium of $150.00/ repair we have to do $100.00 for each box they cover up and tell the general that no final inspection until paid. Even if you do not get paid, you seem to get thier attention fast. I find that all of a sudden the careless or don't care clowns get real careful and start doing a better job. If you do this in a calm professional manner with a regret I have to do this approach they seem to get the message. It has worked for me several times about 65% of the time I also get paid on a change order.

Virgil:

You'd really enjoy working with one of my local builders then.

In major reconstruction projects he has a habit of knocking down a partition wall, ripping boxes off the studs or brickwork with a claw-hammer or pry-bar.

By the time I turn up on the appointed day, I just find boxes and fitting hanging from the ceiling by their cables. Still energized of course!