ECN Forum
Posted By: Edward Proper attire for electricians? - 07/17/04 10:36 PM
How many of you wear shorts on your jobs?
(Denim shorts, cartpenters shorts...)

Does OSHA allow shorts in any construction trade?

Edward
Posted By: electricman2 Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/17/04 10:51 PM
Not me, too hard on the old bare knees when I have to crawl around on them. [Linked Image]
Posted By: DougW Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/17/04 10:53 PM
Seen drywallers and a few nail banger who wera 'em.

They're butch, I'm a weenie. [Linked Image] Been caught on too many nails and rough lumber to not wear something vaguely jeans or cotton duck like.
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/17/04 10:56 PM
I've never worn shorts on a job.

Crawling in an attic or muddy crawlspace ain't conducive to shorts.

Russell
Posted By: CharlieE Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 12:16 AM
It takes a real man to wear these. [Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]


[Linked Image from utilikilts.com]
Posted By: Jeff N Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 12:26 AM
In the summer every day. I keep a pair of long pants in the truck for crawl jobs.
Posted By: sparkystudent Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 02:54 AM
all the time in the summer, i overheat and get lightheaded pretty easy. i keep a pair of long pants or coveralls in the truck for attic or crawlspace work or the ever present attack of skeeters that are occasionally not affected by repellent.

What about winter: who wears "carharts or insul bibs" or what about shutdown temp" or a min temp to pull wire or rope?
Posted By: CRM Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 03:06 AM
No, I never wear shorts at work, most contractors wouldn't allow it anyway.

[This message has been edited by CRM (edited 07-17-2004).]
Posted By: DetroiterRob Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 03:19 AM
almost never wear shorts to work, unless im doing some odd carpentry job, or digging...and lots of it. and i keep a pair of coveralls in the truck for those great attics and crawlspaces too...or the wonderful times when someone calls with an emergency and im out in halfway decent clothes and dont wanna stop off and change

Rob
Posted By: Edward Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 04:20 AM
To me it does not look very professional when one is the service business. If one is in the new construction business and doesn't see the client all the time i guess that would be O.K.

But what does OSHA say about this?

Edward
Posted By: sparkystudent Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 04:38 AM
Edward, i would have to disagree a little bit with that statement. i wear neat clean shorts that fit neatly come to about my knee or just above. they are much more professional looking than the jeans that are worn by 2 of the other guys in our shop , they are ripped and the torn spots are frayed and as a general rule they stained up and look to be in rough shape. we all have red T-shirts that are embroidered in our company logo and name and our names. clean shaven (when i dont have poison ivy) and short hair are also a part of my appearance. So I feel it isnt necessarly what is worn but how. As for the osha or safety aspect, im not sure. I usually wear boots or heavy/tennis hiker shoes. if it is a commercial industrial job then it is always jeans and steel toe boots.
Posted By: golf junkie Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 04:41 AM
I wear shorts as often as possible.

Many of the large GC's are cracking down and won't allow it on their jobsites.
Posted By: DougW Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 04:49 AM
OSHA addressed this, but I can't get to it (Damn Firewalls)

1993- 06/30/1993

Federal Register 58:35076-35306

Somebody let me know what it says!
Posted By: pauluk Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 08:59 AM
Nope, I don't think I've ever worn shorts out on a job, but then the British climate has quite a lot to do with that!

I certainly couldn't imagine crawling through an attic in shorts, no matter how hot up there.
Posted By: walrus Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 11:14 AM
I wear shorts all the time when its warm enough. More comfortable means more work done in the course of the day.
Posted By: iwire Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 11:42 AM
Quote
i would have to disagree a little bit with that statement. i wear neat clean shorts that fit neatly come to about my knee or just above. they are much more professional looking than the jeans that are worn by 2 of the other guys in our shop

Would you be impressed if your banker, butcher or doctor wore shorts.

Would you think that they are professional?

The company I work for and the GCs we get our work from would never allow shorts. Or ripped and shredded long pants for that matter.

Personally I have a hard time taking other workers seriously if they are wearing shorts.

Why not wear sandals and a Hawaiian shirt? [Linked Image]
Posted By: earlydean Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 11:46 AM
Took forever to get there and read it, but here is the OSHA webpage link: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER&p_id=13309

In short, OSHA requires protective clothing (PPE) only when the worker may be exposed to some hazard. Shorts on construction projects are not automatically forbidden by OSHA, just as short sleeves are not automatically banned.

This quote is interesting:

V. "Protective clothing and equipment"

Employees should be provided with and be required to wear appropriate protective clothing wherever there is significant potential for skin contact with liquid EtO or EtO-containing solutions. Protective clothing shall include impermeable coveralls or similar full-body work clothing, gloves, and head coverings, as appropriate to protect areas of the body which may come in contact with liquid EtO or EtO-containing solutions.

Employers should ascertain that the protective garments are impermeable to EtO. Permeable clothing, including items made of rubber, and leather shoes should not be allowed to become contaminated with liquid EtO. If permeable clothing does become contaminated, it should be immediately removed, while the employer is under an emergency deluge shower. If leather footwear or other leather garments become wet from EtO they should be discarded and not be worn again, because leather absorbs EtO and holds it against the skin.

Any protective clothing that has been damaged or is otherwise found to be defective should be repaired or replaced. Clean protective clothing should be provided to the employee as necessary to assure employee protection. Whenever impermeable clothing becomes wet with liquid EtO, it should be washed down with water before being removed by the employee. Employees are also required to wear splash-proof safety goggles where there is any possibility of EtO contacting the eyes.


This was typical of the many hazards OSHA identified. What interested me was the fact that OSHA required the employer to provide and maintain any protective gear required. So, if your contractor requires long pants for safety reasons, then he can buy them and launder them for you. But, if he calls it a dress code, then you are on your own. He can't use OSHA as the reason.
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 12:02 PM
New thread name, "Clothes snobs". [Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 12:08 PM
Quote
Would you think that they are professional?

great bottom line iwire

~S~
btw~ i wear black co T's , they show the dirt/cobwebs/etc less...
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 03:09 PM
I wear shorts every day that I can. As soon as it hits 60 degrees I wear them and I don't put them away until November!
Posted By: iwire Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 03:31 PM
Ryan you would no doubt look really cute. [Linked Image]

Are they cut short like Richard Simmons?

I would not be laughing at all. [Linked Image]

If you got past the GCs trailer with shorts on in the first place. [Linked Image]

Bob
Posted By: Jeff N Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 03:35 PM
If I'm in an accident and the doc comes in to the ER in a TUTU I really don't care! The banker in shorts - big deal. Do you stay away from offices on casual Fridays beacause somehow the staff is not as efficient when they do not have a tie on? Certainly wear what YOU want (or are required to) but I find judging someones skills by whether you can see their knees or not a little odd. I went to a college that required sports coats and ties and believe me one can look very slovenly in a coat and tie.

[This message has been edited by Jeff N (edited 07-18-2004).]
Posted By: walrus Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 04:39 PM
Quote

Would you be impressed if your banker, butcher or doctor wore shorts.

Would you think that they are professional?

So, you're impressed by clothes??. I'm impressed by the quality of someones work not the way he/she are dressed.

If someone is comfortable, don't you believe that could be a reason for better, safer work. Why are most trucking companies putting AC in trucks or cruise control??
Posted By: iwire Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 05:17 PM
It is not so much I am impressed with certain clothes as much as I am unimpressed with other clothes.

I live in the real world and people including myself start making judgments based only on appearances.

I know you are a talented electrician and I know Ryan is a good inspector, but that is because I got to know you without seeing you. If I saw you guys in your shorts before getting to know you I would tend to think you are less professional then either of you certainly seem to be around here.

Yes the company truck is air conditioned, this is not for my comfort, this is so I do not look (and smell [Linked Image]) like a sweaty mess when I arrive at the customer.

It is all personal opinion and those of you that can and want to wear shorts good for you.

I will never be seen on the clock in shorts.

We also do not allow tank tops but that is another thread. [Linked Image]

Bob



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 07-18-2004).]
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 05:42 PM
It's 91°F right now... I'm wearing shorts if I get a call... I've never had a problem impressing people with mind & skill... If what's on the outside matters more than the mind that's going to put your installation in, well..... You guys have seen the pictures I've sent in... [Linked Image]

-Randy
Posted By: walrus Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 05:56 PM
I agree about first impressions, clothes can make a good one or a bad one based on first impressions. After that its worthless. I can show you plenty of oil company employees who are dressed to the 9s and ain't worth a bucket of spit. I also can show you slobs that are equal in value. Either way, the clothes don't fool me.

Its not a stretch to believe comfort on the job would result in better, safer work. I can guarentee trucking companies who buy thousands of trucks at a time have figured that out or the extra cost of AC would not used on their trucks. Makes sense doesn't it?
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 06:08 PM
In my mind (small place)it comes down to several issues,not the least of which is the "over 40 crowd" When I first entered the trade,NOBODY wore shorts,you'd be laughed off the job. Homeowners are a little more tolerant now.

I see a few of the younger guys on some of the bigger resi. crews wearing shorts,99% of them Knee-length.work boots,and tall socks.But not many guys who do service work here wear them.

You don't see shorts on commercial jobs here either.

People in warmer climates with long hot summers would be more prone to wear them I expect. I will confess I tried them while on a job in Fla. a few years ago. It was so dang hot and muggy there,I couldn't tell much difference. [Linked Image]

I did see some guys in an HVAC install crew show uo on a commercial job last year,October to be exact,and the temp was about 45 deg.or so and the wind was blowing. The were all wearing shorts...and COATS. [Linked Image] The GC sent them packing,and walked by me muttering about someone having a screw loose. [Linked Image]

Russell
Posted By: twh Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 07:26 PM
Quote
People in warmer climates with long hot summers would be more prone to wear them I expect.

I agree. There are some places where everyone wears shorts, even bankers. Around here, if my helper showed up in shorts, I would be choked, both warm days. It's more of an issue to get them to bring warm clothes.
Posted By: JCooper Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 08:39 PM
I think it depends on the site. I am just starting a school in south Jersey and everybody is wearing shorts, masons, EC, door guys. The company policy where I work says no shorts, but there have been exceptions made. I was in Jacksonville, FL a few weeks ago and there was no way I was wearing jeans when it was 90 with 90% humidity all the time, and my project manager OK'd this. I understand the point of first impressions but if you appearence is otherwise neat I don't see it as an issue. I will show up on a site with my Carhartt shorts and a company polo shirt and look neater than most of the other guys on the site.
Posted By: Jeff N Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/18/04 09:23 PM
The original thread was about shorts. But as far as other items mentioned I would like to address them. Sandals... No safety issue, Tank tops... I have been known to wear the sleeveless athletic kind with hemmed sleeves, not a cut off Tee on a residential rough with no custoners around...Hawaiian shirt - Hmmm I am the boss and a Hawaiian shirt day at the end of the summer might not be a bad idea!
On another note lets leave iwire's real world for a minute and vist a possible one. iwire is on the job waiting for his inspection and Ryan J pulls in to inspect (in his shorts). do you
A. Tell him he looks unproffessional right
then.
B. Wait untill he finds a possible
infraction then tell him.
C. Tell him on the way out (assuming you
will never have him for an inspector
again).
D. Make nice nice let him finish his inspection, thank him for his time, and on his way out bid him a good day.

I bet we all choose D [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Jeff N (edited 07-18-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Jeff N (edited 07-18-2004).]
Posted By: Big Jim Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 05:40 AM
I wear long pants when: 1. It is below 32 degrees and 2. The job requires it - safety or arbitrary rules. Oops, forgot 3. Funerals.
Yes, I do wear shorts to church otherwise. I think long pants are unnecessarily confining. Shorts and knee pads cover most situations I encounter.
Spring skiing in shorts and a t shirt is one of the great joys of life.
Posted By: sparky Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 09:30 AM
Quote
I live in the real world and people including myself start making judgments based only on appearances.

that's just the way the service industry is, like it or not. we haven't even ventured into a clean shave or (Gawd forbid) our choice of vernacular have we?

~S~
Posted By: zapped208 Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 10:02 AM
We ALL LIVE in the real world!
Posted By: electure Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 11:43 AM
I once again agree with Bob.
I revert to my comments in other threads about green hair and pierced tongues. It's hard to take somebody seriously when they look like they're from Mars.

I've ripped quite a few pairs of Levis with things like panel covers. If I'd have been wearing shorts, I would have ripped quite a few pairs of LEGS. (And we could wear shorts year-round in this climate)...S
Posted By: Jeff N Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 04:24 PM
I respect your opinion but people in shorts look like they are from Mars? In your neck of the woods you must be pretty used to Martians by now. I don't think wearing shorts means a quick progression to green hair and piercings.

[This message has been edited by Jeff N (edited 07-19-2004).]
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 05:04 PM
I forgot to add...Not only do I wear shorts at work, both on residential and commercial jobs, but I also have a nce big tattoo right on my left calf [Linked Image]
Posted By: iwire Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 08:05 PM
I will have to concede it must depend on location. [Linked Image]

Here on the jobs I work anyone with shorts would look more out of place then a Martian. [Linked Image]

We require along with the GCs we work for.

Long Pants

Work boots

Sleeves, they can be short but must be present, in other words your arm pits must not show. [Linked Image]

As a project super I am supposed to send anyone without that home.

Also we provide hardhats and safety glasses.

And the office really wants us to wear gloves, they provide us with nice fingerless Kevlar gloves.

Ryan, seriously I would have to ask you to come back with pants to do your inspections, I will provide hardhat and safety glasses for visitors but I do not stock extra pants. [Linked Image]

But I have never seen an inspector show up in shorts, sneakers yes and I had to tell them to come back with boots. [Linked Image]

Bob
Posted By: CTwireman Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 08:09 PM
Quote
I know you are a talented electrician and I know Ryan is a good inspector, but that is because I got to know you without seeing you. If I saw you guys in your shorts before getting to know you I would tend to think you are less professional then either of you certainly seem to be around here.

I didn't know you could judge the quality of an electrician's work depending on if they are wearing shorts or pants. [Linked Image] Give me a break.

Yes, I wear shorts. In attics too.



[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 07-19-2004).]
Posted By: Fred Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 10:07 PM
While I rarely wear shorts on the jobsite, most other trades do. I think it all depends on the condition of the work clothes. Around here, east-central Indiana, a lot of "professional" people wear shorts on the job in the summer. UPS drivers wear shorts May-October. The city Police here have the option in the summer. Some cops do, some don't, some do and really shouldn't but they have the option. The guys at REMC have the option, depending on what jobs they are doing. I've seen them wearing shorts, trench an underground, put on coveralls and climb a pole to tap the transformer, come down and shuck the coveralls, load up and go to the next job. But I'm talking about shorts, not cut-offs or gym trunks. On the new house job today all the carpenters were wearing Carhart work shorts and so were the roofers. I wasn't offended one bit. I have worked with some drywall hangers who looked like ZZ Top after a 3 week drug/alcohol binge and it wouldn't matter what they wore, unless it was body bags, they just looked bad.
Posted By: sparky Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/19/04 10:08 PM
Quote
I don't think wearing shorts means a quick progression to green hair and piercings.

hmmm...kinda like mothers milk leads to heroin? gotta think on that one ....

alrighty then....

there's nothing left to do but start a "best dressed 'lectrician" thread right outta this mess....

would you let this in your door??

[Linked Image from msnusers.com]
Posted By: iwire Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/20/04 07:19 AM
Peter

Quote
I didn't know you could judge the quality of an electrician's work depending on if they are wearing shorts or pants. Give me a break.

Of course I can not tell how they perform the job, but do not fool yourself into thinking first impressions are not important.

Maybe you are different maybe you do not at first judge a book by it's cover, IMO most of the world does.

If I get a new person on the job and their tool bag and tools look like they where all just purchased I wonder if they know what they are doing. Fair?, not really, they may have been ripped off and had to get new tools.

If a I get a new person on the job and I see the car they drive also looks like they live in it (it's happened) I tend to think loser that will not last long.

Am I always right? Heck no! A guy that started with us 5 or 6 years ago I did not think would last more than a month, he seemed very likely to punch a supervisor right in the face. [Linked Image] Maybe me!

I was wrong, he is now one of my good friends. [Linked Image]

My point is first impressions mean a lot, especially to customers that already feel like you are taking them to the cleaners. [Linked Image]

Bob
Posted By: e57 Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/20/04 08:07 AM
I just fell in love with my pants again...

I got a few pairs of these a few weeks ago.
They have built in knee pads, and a velcro holder for a small tool pouch.
http://www.skillers.com/cgi-bin/sto...40fcd22e13266f39&L=eng&P=5696-85

Check out the tool vest too.

(They also make shorts....)
Posted By: electure Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/20/04 11:47 AM
I didn't mean literally that wearing short pants would lead to green hair, but anyone that thinks that impressions made early on don't count is only fooling themselves.

The reasons that our company has the long pants - shirts with arms - work boots rules are for safety. Many GC's will not let you on a jobsite dressed any other way. (we have had guys in shorts...working in Palm Springs when it's been 110°-120°)
I personally like the extra layer of protection that clothing affords me.

I think that the way you dress depends upon where you're working. If you're out on a little resi job by yourself, then it's one thing, but I personally wouldn't walk into a company's corporate offices in shorts, a tank top, a Tutu, or a pair of sandals.

(I did, however, know a dump truck driver that wore nothing but a "G-string" all day a few summers ago...and he hasn't lived it down yet) [Linked Image]
Posted By: iwire Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/20/04 06:47 PM
Scott let me be the first to say YUCK about that truck driver.
Posted By: CTwireman Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/20/04 08:12 PM
Bob,

I agree, first impression do matter. But as you pointed out with your examples, sometimes appearances are deceiving. Yes, we do live in a "judge a book by its cover" world, and more often than not, someone's appearance gives a lot on insight into their work practices.

Consider this: 2 guys, equally qualified: one is wearing a clean shirt (with no printing) tucked into Carhartt shorts. The other is wearing dirty jeans and a "Budweiser" t shirt. It's hard to say who the "better" electrician is, wouldn't you say?

Myself, if company policies say "No shorts allowed" then I'm not wearing them. However, if given a choice, I will wear shorts, weather permitting of course.

As far as that driver goes, it sounds like he was trying a little too hard to emulate Tommy Lee. Gross!

Peter
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/20/04 10:56 PM
To hijack things just a bit,what really makes me scratch my head is seeing folks (anyone) wearing shorts and a COAT.

I've never quite understood the logic behind that one. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Big Jim Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/21/04 04:06 AM
OK, I do that all the time. I overheat easily at temps where most people are comfortable. If it is 20 degrees out and I will be inside a building, especially if ceiling work is involved (heat rises!), I'll wear shorts and a coat and gloves for the little bit when I'm outside. A hat usually keeps you warmer than long pants.
Posted By: Dave55 Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/23/04 12:48 AM
It was about 90 degrees and very high humidity today (windshield-wipers on most of the way to work without rain). I wore shorts. I changed my shirt three times and took my breaks in the truck with the A.C. on. Some of the asphalt crew had their shirts off...nobody cared.

It's not just about comfort. I need to bring my body temperature down. Have you ever been in a hot attic too long and had chills? (Shorts with knee pads work great). Forget the appearance issue and stay safe. Wear less clothing and drink a lot of water.

Dave
Posted By: mvpmaintman Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/23/04 05:07 AM
Geee, must be nice to be able to wear shorts at work. Inside in a plant, there is no choice but to wear pants, I'll have to give the PPE requirement approach a try we have been trying to get our boss to spring for uniforms since we have so much gunk we have to crawl around in all the time.

There are some jobs where wearing shorts would be nice, but what if comes to mind. Like fropped panels, loose wires, cable ends, etc. I have scars on my legs from when I was wearing long pants, hate to think what would have happened with shorts on.

RYAN-Tatoo? in Utah? my how the tongues must wag about you, especially in light of your fondness for mead!
Posted By: rizer Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/23/04 09:27 AM
the issue here is not wether you feel comfortable in shorts. its a question of ppe. the new nfpa 70 e standards are very clear on what is acceptable when working on electrical panels, disc's, etc. having 100% cotton shirts and long pants, hard hat, safety glasses, are a start. but, the newest standards are more stringent than that. for example if your testing and then working on a deenergized 240v equip:fire rated coveralls or smock with arc face shield and gloves are required. the attitude of " it wont happen to me" is like playing with a hand gernade.
Posted By: Attic Rat Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/23/04 01:08 PM
... Shorts,T-shirts in the summer,pants,sweatshirts in winter,and a smile on my face in between the two,...I could care less what anyone thinks of me or my guys...If I gotta sweat like a slave,then I'm wearin' shorts,..We should'nt have to abide by a dress code,...to get respect,..the respect comes from our overall attitude towards our job,and our skill at executing it,...not by whose name is on our shirt,or filthy pants that are glued to you cuz they're dripping with sweat and attic detritus,and feeling like you're about to pass the heck out,but to the customer at least,...you're in style,... bah humbug..
Russ

[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 07-23-2004).]
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: Proper attire for electricians? - 07/27/04 02:15 AM
They say a picture speaks a thousand words....

[Linked Image from pstr-g01.ygpweb.aol.com]

Add on sporadic thunderstorms to the east pushing the humidity up... I work better & safer without heat stroke!

-Randy
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