When making up boxes, how many prefer barrel crimps for the grounding conductors and how many prefer the green wirenuts with the hole in the end? Or do some just use a regular wirenut and add a pigtail? I have been using the barrel crimps but I ran out Friday and finished up with some greenies I had in my truck. I kind of liked the result plus it would mean one less tool to carry in my belt. I haven't really used them a lot as I still remember when I was an apprentice the greenies were scoffed at by the journeymen.
BigB

I like the greenies, or better yet, the "Term-A-Nut" grounding pigtails from Ideal. A greenie with an attached double pigtail--a ringlug w/ green screw to bond the box, and a spade lug to connect to the device grounding screw.

Crimp sleeves is what I use, they do not take up any precious space up in a box, unlike a greenie or wirenut.
The Term-a-Nut is a good idea, but the price is not cost effective.
You can buy 3-4 boxes of crimps for the price of 25 Term-A- Nuts. JMHO.

We do not use either, we use standard wire nuts.

The greenies would not e very helpful as most of our grounds are fully insulated.

IMO the "Term-A-Nuts" are not worth the money they cost. They do look great and are easy to use.

I have not installed a barrel crimp in 20 years, I never liked them, IMO when you use them with a group of 12 AWG solid the crimp loosens when you push the wires back in the box, IMO they make a lousy connection.

If space in the box is that tight I suggest roughing with larger boxes.

JMO, Bob

I used to install the Greenies, for awhile after they were first introduced, . . . but with all the wonderful things being introduced over the years, my back started developing chiropractic issues. . . .

I settled back to regular wirenuts for the ground and pigtail.

Just the regular wirenut and pigtail here. Never had the opportunity to try the crimps, greenies, or term-a-nuts.

Some observations that I made when trying out various wire connectors:

1) The barrel crimps seem to do a horrible job with 12ga solid wire. I was using the Buchanan C-24 tool, which indents the crimp from 4 sides, and was using Buchanan crimp sleeves. As I recall, 12ga solid is considered acceptable in these connectors. But I could never get what felt like a solid connection.

2) These same crimps seem to do a _great_ job with _stranded_ wire.

-Jon

I use the 12 ga solid wire insulated pigtails with screw attached and standard wire nuts.

Dave

Plain old wire connector. I do like the Greenies for small combinations of #12 and #14 though. Crimp on barrels? Forget it! Garbage.

i like the wire nuts alot better.less hassle and time i think

I prefer the green wirenuts myself.Though I know some guys that swear by the crimps and won't use anything else.As far as in the case when you have a fully insulated ground, I just strip one ground conductor really long that goes through the hole in the end of the green wirenut.

[This message has been edited by andyp95 (edited 05-24-2004).]

Ok... Here we go! I do use the crimps regularly.. But to use propery, the ground wires must also be twisted at least 3 turns along with the crimp. (Told to me by a foreman back in my early days..) So this is the practice I've followed ever since... The green pigtail combo setups are nice, but as other have said, they're not even close to cost effective. A properly installed crimp on a set of ground wires that are twisted together make a good connection IMO... Not to mention alot of the work I do involves going into existing installations where box space seems to be at a premium most of the time... Changing an old weatherproof outlet which is only in a handy-box (in the wall).. Even with a weather-tight extension ring, it's a tight fit to get a GFI in there! I use these with the bare terminal slot..



-Randy



[This message has been edited by Lostazhell (edited 05-24-2004).]

I use the green wirenuts. I don't like the barrel crimps as they don't seem to keep a good tight connection. So do the greenies have to be green?

...We usually use Ideal barrel crimps,and my Klein Journeyman Linesmans,with the crimping die..if not I go with regular Tan wirenuts..by Ideal..and of course the grounding pig-tail for metal boxes..
Russ

You will never have a bad ground connection with a crimp sleeve, and using a crimp tool.
Klein, Ideal, and T&B, which I have, are all good ones.
So then I guess some of you all are also saying that crimping Stay-cons for control work is no good either!
BTW I also use deep boxes.

Crimping stakons for control wiring generally involves STRANDED wire.

Getting a reliable crimp on solid wire (such as the ground wire in a piece of NM) is a lot more difficult.

Zapped I have some quality crimping tools even still I do not like the barrel clamps or sta-kons for solid 12s or 10s.

JMO, that is what the original post was asking for opinions.

No one is wrong for using them, to each their own.



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 05-24-2004).]

OK, to clear the air here, I did not mean that I crimp Sta-Kons to solid wire for control work, that is plain stupid.
If you can't a good crimp with a crimp tool and sleeve/on #14 or 12 solid for grounding, you must be doing something wrong,IMO.
Just try to take one off if you have to make a wiring change!

what if?
a guy took a tan wire nut and drilled a hole in the end and used it in place of a greenie?code violation?reminds me of a green listed screw and listed screw holes in another thread.what would one think of this?

I ain't say'n nothen'!

Has anyone else come across the use of greenies on conductors other than the ground?

I went on one "breaker keeps tripping" call on a recently-wired home to find greenies used EVERYWHERE. A hot wire was sticking out of the end of one of them, and had spot-welded to the box!

I use Buchanan crips applied with the exact tool Randy has in the picture. Why put an extra wirenut in the box when you can use a crimp that takes up a small space?

NJ - I have a mid-50's track home in the suburban LA area, and every stinking splice in every box is done with barrel crimps, then taped over. They didn't even use the old fashoned rubber boot type insulators I've run into here and there.

Needless to say I'm cutting them out box by box as I go through the house replacing devices. Amazing, heh?

So far, though, they haven't caused any problems, but I can see a clear benefit to having plastic boxes with these things. (Keep in mind the branch wiring is 2-wire wiring without a grounding conductor).

Radar

The Buchanon crimps have a tool designed for them. I have one and it does not look like the one pictured by Randy. It works great and the wires are tight and not loose.

Pulled out a box today that was less than a year old. A 14 and a 12 crimped together very loosely. Still a pain in the rear to get apart. For the sake of the next guy I'll stick with the greenies.

Just adding a little more interest to what would seem to be a simple subject.

Wirenuts are tested to UL 486C, and Greenies are tested to UL 467, one for regular wire nuts, the other for grounding purposes. The same goes for the barrels, except the barrels are not listed or tested for grounding purposes. THATS INTERESTING!!!

I called the technical number and spoke to a tech representative about this. They said look in the catalog and I would see that all of the pictures show the barrels used with 'non-grounding' type conductors and that it is not a misrepresentation of the use of the barrels or the wirenuts. That they only show the 'Greenies' with grounding type conductors. I looked in the catalog and sure enough he was correct. He went on to say that 'regular' wirenuts have not been tested for bonding or grounding purposes.

Pierre

I do find that interesting.

The 'regular' wire nuts on the ungrounded conductors are going to take the same fault current as any 'greenie' on the same circuit during a fault, whats the difference?

If you have ever installed plug mold using the wiremold supplied push in connectors you will see the same restriction. In the instructions they show the push in connectors for the ungrounded and grounded conductors, for the grounding conductor they show a regular wire nut.

Bob

LOL

This is a Hall Of Mirrors!

What are the differences between UL 486C and UL 467? (Other than the title, that is.) Is there reference material or the source document available online?

LOL

Yes it is, just bond the darn box and be done with it.

Bob

The 'devil is in the details'. For as much time as I have been in the industry, I and all others have used wirenuts for all splices. I noticed in my reading the two different UL references: 486 for regular wirenuts and 467 for grounding. Exactly what the difference is, I am not sure. I believe that regular wirenuts are not 'tested' for grounding purposes: does this mean that they are not good for grounding? I am not sure, but I would say they are fine, as I have not heard or seen any info of failures of the millions of these installations. But... in court if an attorney uses this info....

I also spoke to the techie about using greenies on regular splices and he said that they were not designed to be used for regular splicing, as the spring has to have the conductor pass through the hole to be effective.
Again, just thinking out loud!

Pierre

I just did a little poking around at UL.com and found that I have to pay them $210.00 for the current version of 486C in .PDF format!!

The .PDF copy of UL 467 also costs $210.00. . . $420.00 total just to read the limitations of the material that the NEC requires me to use.

I want to weigh in on the wire nut vs crimp sleeve issue. I use wire nuts exclusively on commercial work. When doing residential I use a lot of crimp sleeves. I always twist my wires and when I cut off the excess I leave one long to tie to the device. This really makes a lot neater looking box IMO than using a wire nut. It s especially handy when making up three and four device switches. I just leave enough long ground wires to connect to each switch.
That to me is better than cutting three or four short pieces of wire to make pigtails. BTW, I like T&B crimpers. The orange and black handles make them easy to find in the tool bag

PCBelarge,- Ideal crimp sleeves are a UL & CSA product. For Cu/Cu connections.