... The other day,it was my unfortunate task to run a feeder line from the mains to the sub-panel in the basement..The house is about 50-60 yrs old,and unbeknownst to me,contained asbestos on the basement ceiling,..in panels 4'x8'and painted white..In another portion of the basement there were panels of 3/8"plywood,which is what I thought was installed throughout.I started drilling thru this crap,with a 4" hole saw,when I found out it wasn't plywood,but the dreaded asbestos..I stopped drilling immediately,but not soon enough..the powder was all over my arms,and although I washed,I'm afraid I breathed some of this crap in..of course I wasn't wearing PPE for I thought I was only drilling thru plywood.. Am I a goner ?? I mean I'm hearing horror stories of this biting you in the rear end later on..What should I do,...besides pray and take out a Life Insurance policy on myself.?? Can one isolated encounter be potentially deadly,or do you have to be around it awhile??
Scared as Hell!!
Russ

I would not be overly concerned. Plumbers encounter old asbestos on a daily basis, and many old timer plumbers used to mix the stuff to put on pipes and boilers. From what I know, it's the long term exposure that causes problems.

Russ, if this is the only exposure you ever have then the damage should be minimal if any, so I would not worry yourself unduly.

There is also that matter of the type of asbestos it was. If it was white, then the large chrystals are unlikely to have made it to your lungs for such a brief encounter, Brown is a different matter, but it still boils down to exposure.

What this situation should tell you is;

1: Always fully investigate any unidentified surface BEFORE attacking it with power tools or anything that will damage it.

2: Always wear the correct PPE if you in a situation were you will have dust etc falling into your face..drilling near your head will always cause this.

3: If you cannot identify any material or you are unsure, always go for caution and call in someone who will now and can identify the material.

It is better to feel a bit foolish, than make a mistake, prove your foolish and possibly cause yourself or someone else serious harm or worse.

I believe you have to be exposed to it for a while in order for it to be damaging.

Relax see a doctor and do not let your worries damage you.

Edward

...Thank you,guys for your prompt replies!!
The powder was white,and I didn't cough or gag afterwards,...God willing,I'll be OK,..couldn't be worse than the damn cancer sticks I abuse daily..I gotta quit them before it's too late..if the asbetos don't beat them to it..I'm 41 and I smoke more than an old Chevy,...It's the stress,...or my reaction to it..Oh well,I'm feelin' a bit more relaxed after talkin' to you guys...I went to a few web-sites for Asbetosis,and Mesothelioma diseases,...REAL SCAREY STUFF,man!!! So I started getting those "psychosomatic" symptoms...just from readin' about it...
...FWL,I realize I should of had my gear on, and it was plain pig-headed of me to do without it...Never Again!! Thanx again, bro's!!
Russ

I discussed this with a doctor a few years ago. People who are exposed to asbestos have problems at about the same rate as smokers and, like smoking, it is more serious with long term exposure. As a note to this, long term smokers who have long term exposure to asbestos are at high risk.

You're going to live. What are you going to do about the asbestos?

...I'd told the H.O. about my "encounter" and she blew me away by telling me she knew there was "some asbestos" down there,but wasn't exactly sure where...Well,TWH, I sure as heck showed her!! I was mad as heck at her that she knew about it,and said nothing to me,knowing full well I had alot of work to do in that basement...She looked at me like it was my own dumb fault,...which it was,but I should've been advised about what evil lurked in her creepy,dog-poop filled basement..
Russ

I bet now you wish you had listened to your teachers and stayed in school.

I think that the "dog poop" would be more hazardous than the asbestous...lol

you'll be fine...just check your shoes before you get in your vehicle...lol

Mike

If you're really concerned about your health, give up the smokes (it took me three tries) AND wear a respirator when you're in an attic, crawl space, or drilling or sawing over your head.

I was told by a safety equiptment salesperson years ago that a dust type respirator will filter out asbestos (of course you'd want additional gear for your hair and clothes).

Dave

Russ,
Sorry to hear about your accidental encounter. Any exposure is not a good thing.... but... I've got a white area in my lungs that ain't cancer, had it for a long time before they knew it was a hazard.... PLUMBERS use to mix it???? how 'bout us sparkies?? We used to coat medium voltage cables with it all the time, I'll try to forward a pic to Bill so you guys can see what it looks like just in case.

I'm not to worried (and I smoke too) no one ever died of good health, and I haven't heard of anyone living forever yet, something will (eventually) take you outta here, but, in your case, it is not likely to be asbestos.

See a doctor??? For what, this stuff takes YEARS to damage you, no one ever died instantaneously of asbestos exposure unless a bale fell on them

FYI, the largest naturally occurring vein of asbestos resides in Fairfax County, VA (where I live) and no ones moved the homeowners out yet. IOW, it's worth taking seriously, but sure as hell isn't worth losing sleep over.

Just my opinion.

So long asbestos is left alone and not interferred with, it is a pretty inert compound. The problem is when people start digging into it or disturbing it in some other way.

AR,

Asbestos comes in many flavors. The most harmful types have barbs on the edges of the fiber that cause the whole fiber to burrow in and continually irritate. Other fibers are smoother and can be carried out of the lungs with normal expectoration, etc.

Have a lab analyze the material you were cutting. This will give you hard tech on which to base informed medical discisions (if any).

The only other action I would take, were I in your shoes, is to document the heck out of this incident including photos, the lab analysis (as mentioned above) and if you can get it, a signed & dated statement or other type of proof that the individual you're working for or with (homeowner, GC, their insurance agent, or independent qualified inspector, lab tech, etc) of where & when the exposure occurred and that the asbestos was known to be there prior to your work and that you were not made aware of its location. This may establish culpability on the part of the homeowner/GC/whomever hired you if you should have a resulting disease or condition.

Most lung diseases result from exposures encountered much earlier or repeatedly (as in the case with smoking) - - this is not to say 'repeated' exposure necessarily in the case of asbestos but the condition takes a long time to manifest itself into difficulties. If the fiber is there but the lung tolerates it for a long time, it's difficult to establish the exposure or contact moment unless the exposure is limited to a certain point in time.

I stopped reading after the "Cancer sticks" comment. Why peole smoke I will never understand. To then worry about 5 seconds exposure to asbestos seems really out there. ***Not meant to flame here but come on.

hey guys look on the bright side, ANY fiber that is of the same size and shape as the asbestos fibers can cause the dreaded mesothilioma (sp?)...in an hvac electrical class i was in last year we discussed a study that found that fiberglass causes the same thing, just takes longer to show up than the 20-50 years asbestos does....if i can find a copy of it ill post it on here, and for all of us who work on rooftop equipment, all that pigeon poop you see... numerous studys show that a high exposure to that in the air for 15-20 minutes is far worse than smoking for a lifetime....just somthing to think about

Rob

When people light up a cigarette and force me to ingest their unsavory exhaust, over time it has inspired me to carry a baggy of feces and a personal fan, and to open it and waft the aroma into their face and say, "I like to do this after meals and after making love."

Now I'll have to consider sometimes switching to a handful of asbestos to get my point across! Thanks for the idea!

... Point taken,people...

Attic rat, my Dad was a boilermaker for the RR. He was exposed to asbestos for years, they used to have snowball fights with it, and he suffered no long term damage from it. Our generations problem,I'm 46, will be fiberglass. It acts similiar to asbestos when inhaled. It irritiates the lungs and causes them to form scar tissue around the fibers.

AR, quitting smoking as discussed in another thread is still one of my 'top five challenges' that I've faced and conquered and it can take a while before the time is right and the person is ready to quit.

Also, there are a lot of opinions and experiences here to help give a range of reactions and offer a fairly wide spectrum of data to mull over. I'd say that for the sheer numbers of people exposed to asbestos (or the number of exposures over time) compared to the number of people who contracted a condition, your odds of having a negative impact from this are pretty low. Your odds of learning a lesson are pretty high and that'll serve you well in a lot of ways.

Hello all; I have a few things to toss in this thread, as to the Asbestos issues and also the quit smoking Cigarettes situation.

First the Asbestos issue:

I have personally been exposed to airborne (white) Asbestos in the >22 years of my "full-time" career. Unsure to the extents of exposure prior to this time period, as I worked weekends and holidays with my Father as far back as the 3rd grade of Elementry School.
Only had "mild" exposure to airborne fibres, but nonetheless it was exposure.

Currently (actually began back in 1990 or so as part of "Right To Know" information), Asbestos reports are now part of the "Norm" for the remodel / T.I. projects I deal with + design.
If the report is not complete, or is not available, the areas in the scope of work get tested by an appropriately qualified firm.
If the tests turn up "hot" - meaning Asbestos was found in things like the Drywall, the Drywall's Joint Compound, in Plaster (interior or exterior), in Floor Tiles, in Ceiling tiles, within any mastic or vent pipes, the Asbestos Containing Materials (ACM) plus the type of Asbestos and the location(s) are documented. A report is issued pertaining to this data.

If the scope of work requires these ACMs to be altered (moved, cut, drilled, etc.), the ACMs will be controlled or possibly completely removed via an Abatement process.

I just wish these Asbestos Surveys were always available, because I really do not like the thought of exposing someone else to the airborne Asbestos as part of my normal work - as I also was unaware at the time of the liabilities and issues of Asbestos.
It's OK for me to harm myself - but when it comes to the possible harm of anyone else, this is where I draw the line!
Like I said, I had no idea of the possible problems at the time. It was only by 1990 that I became fully aware of all the legal issues, plus the many ACMs that were normally dealt with by myself.
That was when the guilt hit me hard!
Come to find out (through hardcore searching!) that no one had been effected by my ignorance of the ACMs.
Thank God for that!!!

OK, with this in mind, here are some "Exceptions" to the Asbestos deals:

<OL TYPE=A>


[*] It takes about 14 Years for the effects to become apparent,


[*] Most of the cases are from repeated long time exposure to airborne fibres,


[*] Some people are effected, others aren't,


[*] Smog that we all breathe in daily is also a Cancer consern, and this is definitely a long time repeat exposure,


[*] Some of the testing firms plus the Abatement Companies will over play the risks of Asbestos - either from Ignorance of the Scientific / documented studies, from personal Biasness, from personal Arrogance, or simply as a "Marketing Tool" to close a sale.
</OL>

Don't get me wrong here - I know it's a real hazard, just also know from personal experiences (after learning a little about the issues) that some Test Technicians are talking out there butts at times.
When I hear a tech say "You Just Have To Sit Next To Asbestos for A Few Minutes, And You're Affected - Even Though It Is not Airborne", then I have to go into "De-Bunk Mode"!

My fields are all in the commercial / Industrial classifications - from the Design / Engineer / Consulting side, through to the Installations performed + Supervision of Installations and Management of said Projects.
This makes for the need of complete and current Asbestos Survey Reports to be available to any and all persons involved with the project.
This includes the Construction Staff, and the Client's Staff (the people working at the Building).
The Tenant (Client) is the holder of the Asbestos Survey Reports - which are distributed via the FIA and Right-To-Know for workplace policy. The Building Owner / Prop. Mgment firm is responsible for the documents and testing, and is to distribute the survey reports to all Tenants of the site.

Downfall for Residential Based work is there is no requirement for the homeowner to provide or obtain documentation for Asbestos, unless the property is being sold (I think?).
I am so unfamiliar with the whole Residential Service / Remodel field, so really am not sure what's required.

As I mentioned, some people are effected, others aren't.
Case in point; My Father, along with a close Friend and GC we worked with for many years, had been exposed to airborne Asbestos on an astronomically large scale!
They used to "Rip" Asbestos Sheathing (exterior sheathing) with Skill saws, when they worked on Tract Housing back in the 1940's, 50's and early 60's.
They were exposed to huge amounts of flying Asbestos when they had to cut the "boards" down to size, yet neither of them have been found to have Cancer as of this day!

Sadly, their Brothers whom also did the same type of work - but Smoked heavilly - became victims of Cancer. Not sure which was the cause, but this seems to be very common from the people I talk with.

Now to get away from the Asbestos issues and to the Quitting Smoking issues!

I Smoked for about 8 Years. Never exceeded 1 pack per day (unless someone was "helping" me smoke my cigarettes! - AKA "Bumming Smokes Endlessly").
Tried to quit about 1,000 times, and found out that "To Quit Smoking Is Really Simple - I Have Done It 1,000 Times!"
The only way for me was to quit "cold-turkey" after finally realizing that I did not want to Smoke any longer.
It wasn't until then (when i finally came to terms about not wanting to Smoke) that I was successful.
There's no way to quit until you are ready to quit! No one can force you to quit, no product will make you quit.
So far, the most effective method I know of is the "Cold-Turkey" method. It worked for myself and many friends + relatives, whereas Nicotine reduction methods have yield no success (long term wise - as none of us "cold-turkey" ex-smokers have started up again, and all the reduction people are once again full time smokers).

Not sure what method works best for others, but in either case be ready for a drammatic change!
First thing is the initial withdrawl "crash". For me, this resulted in a near 48 hours of straight sleep!
After this, be ready to have the worst 'Tude in the World!
I was a major D*&Khead for close to 3 weeks!
During this period, I was the most vunerable to start up again!
I even took a hit off my Wife's Cigarette - but being that it was close to 3 weeks of non-smoking, I got the worst headrush ever, and it was some awful tasting Generic brand, which left a horrible taste in my mouth for the rest of the day.
That was February 1993 - and was the last hit off a Cigarette I ever took!
My Wife still Smokes, and I have no wish to even touch her Cigarettes!
If I can be an ex-Smoker - and remain successful for so many years, being surrounded by other Smokers + not Smoke when the rare occasions of getting drunk come up, then ANYONE CAN BE SUCCESSFUL!!!

That's all for now. Hope you liked the story - regardless of all the spelllleeeng air-errs and other type-oooo's I placed in this message!



Iye arree a tair-e-bull speallure and kannt tallhk englursh vairee gud eethire!

Scott35

In my opinion, Scott is %100 right about really wanting to quit smoking, and doing it cold turkey. I smoked one pack a day for 15 years. One evening in November of '99 while working a side job, I got so sick and tired of doing it, I finished the last cigarette in my last pack, and said "That's it, I can't take it anymore". I never cheated, never looked back. And probably the greater benefit of quitting, other than my health, was my kids came around me to talk more often.

Russ, everyone here is offering you very sound advise in my opinion. I don't think you have a thing to worry about.

... A VERY heartfelt THANK YOU to all who replied here...I really and truly appreciate it..This is really a great community of caring,hard-working people,and I'm so glad to have the chance of being a part of it..You guys are Great..really..Thanx,
Russ

Awww...

That was sweet Russ......really !

I can feel the love in this post...


"LOVE THY NEIGHBOR...BUT DON'T GET CAUGHT"