ECN Forum
Posted By: DougW Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 12:52 AM
Well, as luck would have it, I was offered the chance to scrounge throught a friend's parent's basement for tools and 'lectrical stuff (pics coming!) to make up for my recent theft. In inventory-ing my losses, I realized that I had bought mostly Klein & Ideal tools. Usually under the (not too unfounded) belief that "you get what you pay for", in terms of quality and durability.

As I went through the tools (previous owner was an HVAC guy), I caught myself discarding screwdrivers without a legible brand name, and second guessing pliers and such in a similar state.

It got me wondering... Am I a "tool snob"? And how much does a name brand mean to you?

Would you pass over a "perfectly good" generic tool for one with more of a "rep", or "street cred"?

Say, Klein, instead of Craftsman... (Yes, I realize that Klien makes tools under license for other folks like Craftsman).

Milwaukee, instead of DeWalt...

Vaco, instead of Stanley...

Obviously, I'm not counting the generic "made in China" Chrome plated tin pliers (although I did have a "cheapo" cable cutter before I inherited my Greenlee one)

And we'll ignore the "strips first time you use them" phillips, as these are for EMERGENCY USE ONLY (the world has ended, and you're stuck re-illuminating the last survivors with a "Tool Shop" tool set, or you're doing expedient work with your "okay to get stolen" set of cheepo keep-in-the-car tools.)

What's your take on the issue?

BTW-scored MAJOR toolage... full 3/8" & 1/2" socket set, extra wrenches, more KO punches, and a bunch of plumbing and electrical fittings. Should be back up to speed pretty quick. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 04-18-2004).]
Posted By: nesparky Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 01:05 AM
When I buy tools, I buy quality tools. The brands that have proven they hold up to the stress of the trade. Sometimes I have used the elcheapo's (purchased to get a job done now and usual supply house was closed) usually to throw them away within a day or two. I consider those purchases to be money triwn away and an additional cost to the job. Rarely do those tools last very long although a cheap set of tin snips ($6.00) is still going strong after 3 years.
So yes I am someting of a tool snob
Posted By: Electric Eagle Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 01:20 AM
Yep, call me a snob if you like. I only buy the best when it comes to tools. It's been my experience that if you buy a cheap tool, it either won't do a good or quick job or it won't last long. Either way, you'll be replacing it before long. I also ecourage new helpers to buy only good tools and require good strippers and side cutters or it will cost me in lost productivity.

[This message has been edited by Electric Eagle (edited 04-18-2004).]
Posted By: chi spark Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 01:45 AM
It's a toss up depending on your work ethic- I've always wanted to buy a full set of the first manufacturer who will give a lifetime guarantee against losing! When I started out >20 yrs ago, I got what I could afford and did the best I could with it, while trying to learn how not to leave hand tools on jobsites, how to clearly mark w/ID, how not to drop off roofs or down shafts and chases... But definitely:"pass me my Kleins, my T&B crimpers, my Greenlee set, my hole hawg, amprobe, fluke...etc" I wouldn't call it snobby, just a "preferred vendor" that helps to create your style and craft. I've long passed the point of stupid losses, and if I would have started with all the premium tools, I would have been on set #4 or 5 by now-as it is, I have kleins and others over 20 yrs old. Good luck relearning and acquiring the new stuff, are you getting any deals from supply houses for basic klein sets and such?

[This message has been edited by chi spark (edited 04-18-2004).]
Posted By: DougW Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 02:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by chi spark -
are you getting any deals from supply houses for basic klein sets and such?

DOH! Didn't even think about that. I'll have to check with my local supply house & see what kind of deal I can work.
Posted By: amp-man Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 02:17 AM
Oh yea, I'm guilty!

Klien, Ideal, some German stuff.

I do keep a few cheap quality screwdrivers and pliers handy in the tool bag--to abuse or loan out. Even with these, I tell the borrower that I want the tool RIGHT BACK.

But that's another issue. I recall a thread a while back about loaning tools.

Cliff
Posted By: eswets Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 02:21 AM
I've got better deals for Klein and Greenlee at the big orange. My local suppliers cant come close to those prices. I had one supplier tell me that there cost is the sell price of H.D. Well I get most of my tools from there and online. I've found some good places that are cheap and good. And yes I am a tool snob and proud of it. You have to have professional tools to do a professional job. (or at least a quality tool.)
Posted By: Megawatt Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 02:57 AM
Guilty...Klein, Greenlee, & Milwaukee, don't use much else.
Posted By: chi spark Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 02:58 AM
Some supply houses give deals on sets for new apprentices just starting out. The ones I have seen are always offering too many duplicates for my box, but if my box was empty.... I see you're from North Chicago/Waukegan area. That's turned into a bit of a war zone lately. Is 10th St. hardware still around? I've been up there for Great Lakes, Muppet Labs, and VA quite a bit- it's about 50 miles north of me.
Posted By: DougW Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 03:27 AM
chi spark- NoChi is still the "culturally diverse" area you remember, but with a HUGE increase in hispanic families who (gasp) OWN THEIR HOMES slowly putting a dent in the Section 8 / ne'er do well renter market, we should see a turnarund shortly...

Like by the time I retire!

Seriously though, most of the political observers are waiting to see the black political block tumble like the slovanian/lithuanian one did in the late 60's-early 70's.

Oh well, I guess when you're at the bottom, there's nowhere else to go but up!

Now for the sad news...

Unfortunately, 10th St. Hardware is no more [Linked Image]

There used to be a Builder's Square @ Lewis & Belevedere - they closed, and Lowe's started sniffing around it just about the time Big Orange opened up in Gurnee. Rather than lose money to the competition, Orange bought the B2 property, expanded it, and opened up in it's place.

That was the final coffin nail for 10SH. They had better prices than 10SH could ever offer (nod to eswets), and, despite having guys who were "hardware legends" (ie they knew their arse from a hole in the wall), the overhead finally brough 'em down about 2 years ago.

Goodman Electric is still in business, however, and the guys are still as full of sh*t [Linked Image] as ever!

I actually thought about a p/t gig at Orange in the elevctrical department - every time I go in there, they're losing customers due to no staff to cut wire or answer questions.

However, I don't think that they're willing to pay a wage I'd accept, and I couldn't sell some H.O. Romex to install in Waukegan knowing it was illegal for him to do so...
Posted By: Attic Rat Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 05:08 AM
.. Yeah, I'd have to say that I'm a "tool snob". I was over at my sister-in-laws for dinner this weekend, and she had bought a light fixture from "Home Dopey",and although she didn't ask me to hang it for her, I insisted on doing so.When I realized I didn't have MY TOOLS,I was beside myself and asked her what tools she had...She then brought me out an old toolbox filled with her ex-husbands crappy tools...I meticulously looked through the box for something useful,and with each one I mumbled to myself that they were what I call.."Romper Room" tools,...meaning they are useless,and could be used as playthings by any innovative 4 year old...I hung the darn thing anyway, and wished I had MY TOOLS..
Russ
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 05:55 AM
I wouldn't necessarily call it being a tool snob... I'm just counting on my tools to get the job done! Especially since my office finds it amusing to send me on troubleshoots & installs that can be, at best, 100+ miles from the nearest "Home Desperation" I did manage to annoy my parts house by breaking not 1, but 4 of the Klein 10 in 1 screw drivers... (twice the #1 flat head broke, stripped out the hex drive on one, & somehow manage to jam the whole other one together as I couldn't swap tips) A hammer never touched the end of those either.. & once I literally busted off part of a pair of Klein "dykes" trimming a screw. [Linked Image] Something I'd never expect of that brand

I have some "basic" things like a couple #2 phillips & flat heads, a pair of GB strippers, & a pair of really old linemans I found in an attic I keep in my van in case I lose something here or there... I'll buy a new tool when I can & the generic goes back in storage..

But I do tend to stick with Klein, Ideal,& Greenlee for hand tools. Makita, Porter Cable, Hilti, De Walt & Bosch in the power tool department... Simply for the durability & dependability [Linked Image]

-Randy

PS.. I have a set of "Met-wrenches" I bought off an info-mercial probably better than 10 years ago... Still use 'em & they're still in great shape! Not ALL no-names are bad.. I can tell a good tool by holding & using it.. Regardless of who's name is on it! [Linked Image] But in general... We all know which names they'll be!

[This message has been edited by Lostazhell (edited 04-19-2004).]
Posted By: Sandro Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 09:56 PM
Professional tools make for professional jobs. Klein, Ideal and Dewalt for us.

Having said that, I do buy cheaper quality tools when I don't need the good ones. For example, I won't pay extra for the quality Klein needlenose pliers, when the storebrand needlenose works good enough for my purposes at a quarter of the cost.
Posted By: arseegee Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/19/04 10:53 PM
Klein, Vaco and Fluke only in my bag please. No exceptions.
Posted By: Sparkeee32 Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/20/04 04:03 AM
I check the joints most...then p!ss off the folks at the tool stores bye seeing how easy it is to bend them and such, or seeing if I can scratch it with my pocket knife. And I keep to the better nations for material...i.e. USA, Canada, Japan, Germany, and S O M E of the taiwan stuf is... o k . I look at shape too. the more rounded a structural corner is, the stronger it is, and less likely to break from stress fatigue. I've seen 2 pairs of klein linemans shear...though I suspect they are highly beaten tools. So brand doesn't make something last forever. Now I'd like to throw the cordless tool question into the mix! With so many brands changing so often...who do you support!?!? Brian
Posted By: pauluk Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/20/04 08:54 AM
Good quality tools really do make a difference. I still have some 40+ years old that I inherited from my father that are still going strong and in excellent shape.

When it comes to hand-tools, I try to stick to American, British, and German makes.
Posted By: earlydean Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/20/04 12:34 PM
Tools are self regulating. The cheap ones will break or fall apart, those that are quality (no matter the cost) will still be in your tool kit. So buy anything and everything, only the best will survive. (sounds like life).
Posted By: kyme Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/20/04 03:24 PM
do any of you guys use metabo power tools?
Posted By: Trainwire Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/20/04 05:06 PM
We have a fleet of 10 or so of the Metabo 4 and 5 inch grinders here in the fab shop. (see some of the pictures I've had posted in the past). Get the royal snot beat out of them. (running for 8 hours prepping welds etc.) Other than routine maintenance, they are worn out in about 5 to 7 years. Biggest fuss Ihave about them is they change model availability about every three years and parts don't interchange.

Edit to answer the original question. The shop is stocked with good stuff, Williams, Snap-On, Crescent. We do keep a supply of cheap Chinese stuff around, so you don't have to cut up and modify the 'spensive stuff. Our "tool czar" goes nuts if he sees you heating a Snap-On wrench to make it go around a corner. [Linked Image]
TW

[This message has been edited by Trainwire (edited 04-20-2004).]
Posted By: walrus Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/20/04 09:04 PM
Tool Snob here and proud of it. Never met a tool I didn't like [Linked Image]. As far hand tools go, Snap On rules, Milwaukee makes good stuff so does Dewalt, I like both. Fluke Meters over anything else I've seen or used. Klein, Greenlee, Ideal work well from my experience.
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/21/04 03:26 AM
Trainwire—gotta’ ask—what size of wrench do you “customize” with your Zippo-Mega lighter?

["Zippo" image moved to https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000522.html ]




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 04-21-2004).]
Posted By: u2slow Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/21/04 04:32 AM
My company supplies all power tools and any specialty tools, so basic hand tools are all require for work.

I buy according to usage and abusage [Linked Image]

Anything I use frequently and properly is a Klein, Ideal, GB, Stanley, or Cooper Tools.

Tools I abuse and/or are essentially consumable will be from local discount tool stores. Most noteworthy are $2 "beater" flathead screwdrivers and $5 24oz. framing hammers.
Posted By: Jps1006 Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/21/04 04:46 AM
from my experience, I don't consider DeWalt to be a snobby tool to have. I would consider it to be average. Bosch is snobby. My brother has a bosch cordless that I think is very nice. Seems much more solid than my DeWalt 18V. I can't tell you how many 18V drills I've gone through. 4 maybe 5. The problem is one you have a kit and a bunch of batteries, your that much more commited to the brand and product line. So every time I burn one up, I go back and buy another.

Bosch makes very nice hammer drills too. I own a big one and a small one.

Chi, I too had to learn how to not lose tools (as I'm sure most have). I have always wondered what it would look like if one could gather all of the tools that have been left in the drop ceilings across this country (or around the world-[don't want to exclude the internationals, just my imagination isn't that big])
Posted By: Big Jim Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/21/04 06:21 AM
OK, does the name Harbor Freight make you want to cry? I have owned one pair of linesmans that were not klien. Never again. I have a big roll around full of Snap On. Welders are Miller and Lincoln. I know and respect quality but I also have a bunch of stuff from Harbor Freight and the like. There are speciality items I use only occassionally. I have a 20 ton hydraulic press in the shop. I use it rarely but it is almost essential when I need it. It cost me 1/4 the price of an OTC press so I can afford to have it and let it sit a lot. With the use I give it, I'll likely pass it on to my kids. If it is a tool that is worth carrying in your pouch everyday, only the best will do. If its one you need every six months, maybe a Made in China version is all right. I'm not a tool snob but I try to buy intellegently. $20 for a single screwdriver may well be a good purchase as well as $3.95 for a 12 piece wrench set depending on the circustances. One thing to think about is the trend for everybody to offer a lifetime guarantee. Remember, that's the life of the company. Craftsman has been around 80 years or so. How stable is HD's Husky brand? Another smart option is to buy speciality items used. I don't need my .27 cal Hilti often but I paid less for the whole kit used than the new cost of the supplies that came with it. Money is too hard to come by to not spend it wisely.
Posted By: CTwireman Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/21/04 05:35 PM
You can't go wrong with just about anything hanging on the wall behind the counter in a decent, reputable supply store.

Peter
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/21/04 06:17 PM
Just when I spout off about 'modifying' wrenches, Trainwire sent a pic of a few of his real "trainwrenches".

Quote

We don't dig the Zippo's out too often. Except when we are making major boiler parts it's like shooting a groundhog with an elephant gun. The oxyacetelyne torches make enough heat for most of the work. And we just restored a machine that will bend up to 5/8th boiler plate cold, so we use them even less.

The pictures are of some of the wrenches that we have made for various jobs. 2" to 7". The apparatus in the bottom of the pictures are the oxygen bottle racks for the Zippo's.

[Wrench image moved to https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000522.html ]




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 04-21-2004).]
Posted By: GA76JW Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/21/04 11:06 PM
Well I learned my lesson early. I went to Wally World about 3 months ago and bought (what I thought was a good deal at the time) a Stanley 6 piece screwdriver set for a whole $2.50. I was beside myself at how cheap they were. I thought I hit the Gold mine. I got to work and showed everyone my new screwdrivers and how cheap they were. I used one of the Large Flatheads for a Whole 5 minutes before the tip broke. I was ticked off at that point.

Needless to say I still have 2 of those left from that 6 pack and they only get used to beat on things with. They are worthless crap. I say stick with the good stuff. At least some companies will replace if anything happens (besides beating [Linked Image] and theft)

If buying good quality tools is being a tool snob, then I will join the club.
Posted By: John Steinke Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/23/04 04:15 AM
I use quality tols for most jobs, but with one difference...
My tools are usually a different brand, or a different model, than what everyone else has. I find that they are less likely to get mixed up with their tools!
I will get a POS generic tool if I'm not sure of the utility or need for the tool. If the tool prooves necessary, I will upgrade to a quality version.
.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Are you a tool snob? - 04/23/04 07:30 AM
Doug,
If you take that angle on things.
Yes, I am a Tool-Snob!!
I use my tools to make a living and if they fail, it costs me money (directly or in-directly).
Years of working out in the rain on Overhead Lines has Taught me that cheap tools only make you wetter.
Bust a cheap set of pliers up a pole and you'll know what I mean. [Linked Image]
© ECN Electrical Forums