ECN Forum
Posted By: Danny hps starter - 01/24/04 02:05 AM
hi all..
is it possible for a new hps ignitor to completely fail due to miswiring?
i now have the ballast wired correctly but it will not start.the lamp that i have is a 150w sylvania hps--which is new by the way.
Posted By: electricman2 Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 02:33 AM
Never experienced it but I guess its possible. Could be the ignitor was bad to begin with but thats a long shot. Do you know for sure the ballast is good? They rarely fail, its usually the ignitor that fails.
Posted By: Danny Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 02:46 AM
i purchased the S55 ballast new.it's wired up now,and it will fire up a 15w bulb but it won't light up my new lumalux lamp.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 05:07 AM
Gidday Danny,
Welcome to ECN!. [Linked Image]
Have you discounted a faulty lampholder contact?
Posted By: frenchelectrican Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 05:16 AM
i will suggest that recheck the ingintor again and some ingitors have specal jumper wire have to be clipped off with certen wattage bulbs. i did see few of them myself and please post the manufacter of the starter itself so i can able steer ya right.

merci, marc
Posted By: Danny Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 05:36 AM
hi agian..
i managed to get the lumalux lamp to start.but i noticed some smoke coming out of the ballast(which can't be good),also the lamp won't stay on for more than 10 minutes.whats the problem with this?

I think my starter/ignitor is still good now that i've got it to light up.fyi the manufacturer of the ballast is powerlighting RU S55 150w HPS.
http://www.sonycams.com/forum/attachment.php?s=0a228b4e3479f60f5d95b70199a88200&postid=8450
Posted By: Trumpy Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 05:46 AM
Good to see you've got a result on this Danny.
Marc is our resident Sodium/HPS Man, if he doesn't know how it works, it doesn't exist!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Danny Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 06:01 AM
thanks trumpy

you got an email marc
Posted By: Bjarney Re: hps starter - 01/24/04 09:50 PM
For smoke, verify that the capacitor is not shorted.

HPS sockets need to hold off the ignitor voltage—they are typically rated for pulsed 4-5kV between mogul-/medium-based terminals.




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 01-24-2004).]
Posted By: Scott35 Re: hps starter - 01/26/04 06:01 AM
First off, need to point out that there are TWO different "Flavors" of the 150 Watt HPS Lamp + Ballast.

One Lamp is a 55 Volt Lamp, the other one is 100 Volt.

S55 is the ANSI designation for the 55 Volt version of the 150 Watt HPS Lamp. It has a "Normal" Medium Base - such as the typical Medium base used on common type "A" Incandescent Lamps of 25-150 Watt power ratings @ 120-130VAC.

S56 is the ANSI designation for the 100 Volt version of the 150 Watt HPS Lamp. It has the "larger" Mogul Base - typical of most HID Lamps of >100 Watts power.

If the Ballast you are driving the Lamp with is not properly matched per the Lamp's Voltage rating (sounds like this may be the case), then the Lamp will suffer from continuous cycling (on-off-on-off-on-off...).
Also, does the non-functioning HPS Lamp work properly in another fixture? Verify this ASAP to rule out a bad Lamp.

The type of Pulse Ignitor is also critical for correct operation. Some Ignitors are intended to be used with 55 Volt Lamps, others are intended for 100 Volt Lamps - still others are meant for use on Metal Halide Lamps, being of Pulse-Start types.

The fact that Smoke is being let out of the Windings makes me wonder if the Ballast is connected properly, or if there's a failed section of a winding.
Could also be a poor contact point.

Anyhow, check these items, then reply back ASAP:

<OL TYPE=1>

[*] Is the Lamp's Base Medium or Mogul;


[*] Is the Ballast a CWA type (Constant-Wattage Autotransformer), or Straight Linear-Reactor;


[*] Is the Capacitor connected properly, or if unsure, does it connect to the Lamp or connect to the input;


[*] Is the Ignitor connected properly + the right one;


[*] With the Ignitor disconnected, what is the output voltage found at the Lamp Socket;


[*] How many Line inputs does the Ballast have.
</OL>

If the Lamp socket can fit a Medium based Lamp, will a 150 Watt Incandescent Lamp work in place of the HPS Lamp? (disconnect the Ignitor prior to this test).

If you need to verify proper connections or references, there are many HID Schematics at the Technical Reference section here at ECN.
Goto that area, select the "Menu For Technical Reference Section", then check the drawings listed for your type of Ballast.

Let me know if you are unsure of anything listed here, along with which Schematics to check, and I'll add more information for you - along with including links to the Schematics for verification.

Let us know whazzup ASAP!

Scott35
Posted By: electricman2 Re: hps starter - 01/26/04 08:31 PM
quote by Scott35
Quote
S55 is the ANSI designation for the 55 Volt version of the 150 Watt HPS Lamp. It has a "Normal" Medium Base - such as the typical Medium base used on common type "A" Incandescent Lamps of 25-150 Watt power ratings @ 120-130VAC
I have seen quite a few fixtures equipped with 150 watt S55 lamps with mogul bases, just replaced ignitor on one last week. Am I missing something?
Posted By: Bjarney Re: hps starter - 01/26/04 10:18 PM
Scott35 implied this—but it’s worth repeating. I there is a multi-voltage [tapped] ballast, be certain that only two {of say, five leads} are connected to the {incoming} branch circuit. An example would be a replacement ballast that is labeled 120/208/240/277V. There are often wire pigtails, and on the line side only two should be connected, with the others capped off/well insulated. One of the unused leads accidentally contacting ground or other lead in the ballast case will cook a ballast in short order.
Posted By: Danny Re: hps starter - 01/27/04 12:02 AM
hi again,
scott i'll try and answer some of the questions.
1) mogul base

2)CWA i think

3)wires from the capacitor 2 to long side of transformer and one into the ignitor which goes into the lamp

4)i think the ignitor is the right one.it came with the ballast kit.

5)not sure,cause i don't have any type of meter to test it.

6)4 i think then one com wire so 5 total

i tried and it will light up a 15 watt bulb.the socket is a mogul socket right now so i can't really test any other bulb on it.
also i--i can't test my lumalux lamp cause i don't have another ballast.

i'd love to see other wiring diagrams if there are any.i'm going to search on ECN for them.please provide me with other link too.

DMan
Posted By: golf junkie Re: hps starter - 01/27/04 12:52 AM
A while back someone else put me onto Advance Transformer online training. More info. about HID lighting than you ever wanted to know.
http://www.advancetransformer.com/university/default.asp
Posted By: Scott35 Re: hps starter - 01/30/04 10:38 AM
Danny;

From the descriptions, it sounds like you have the setups for the 100 Volt version of the 150 Watt HPS (ANSI S56) Lamp + Ballast.

I'll insert Schematics for proper connections, and Ignitor reference numbers (Advance brand). Verify these items are 1:1 for your equipment.

If you have another S56 Lamp which is known to be operative, try using it for testing the fixture in question. Let it run for at least an hour. If possible, let it run for upto 8 hours.

If that Lamp operates correctly, then return the other S56 Lamp for replacement.

If the known good Lamp cycles only in this fixture, verify correct input voltage + stable voltage over a period of time. Check at the Ballast's input. Look for drammatic lows and/or highs. If the voltage is >10% of the rated voltage for the Ballast, there's your problem. If voltage drops are found, that's another problem.

If voltage is OK, then check the Capacitor for its state of health. If failing, replace it with equal size and voltage rating.

If both voltage and Capacitor are OK, swap the Ignitor with a known good one and see if this results in stable operation. If it does, return the Ignitor for replacement.

If all these tests do not turn up a bad peripheral item, send the entire Ballast kit back for replacement. If you get this far, the Ballast was not wound properly and there is no field modifications to do.

Here's some Schematics for your reference:

[Linked Image]

Image 1: CWA Ballast for 100 Volt High Pressure Sodium Lamps.
* This is what your Ballast should look like (connections + peripherals wise)

[Linked Image]

Image 2: Linear Reactor Ballast for 55 Volt High Pressure Sodium Lamps.
* Yours should not look like this!

These Schematics, along with others, may also be found at ECN's Technical Reference Section, using the following link to the Section's Menu:

Menu For Technical Reference Section

Correct Ignitor Catalog Numbers (Re: Advance Transformer Co.):

* Short Range (upto 2 feet): LI501-H4
* Long Range (upto 50 feet): LI501-J4

Good luck!

Scott35
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