The breaker thieves are back! A job my company is doing (On the other side of the freeway from mine ) got hit last weekend for about $35K worth of breakers. This seems to go in cycles so if you are in the LA area, watch out.

Nick:
Was that 35K in breakers??? Was it a break-in, or an unsecured building?? Were the breakers all that was taken??

John

Yes that $35,000.00 in breakers. (Replacement cost of course not including labor) That was all that was taken and that is all they are usually after. 500MCM copper isn't even worth there time. They just leave it there. The building is a Central Plant under construction so it's only semi secure. There is a night guard. He must have been sleeping.
We have been hit in the past for much larger dollar amounts. One job was 250K before it was all over and done. It's hard to stop it from happening without posting a guard with an AK47.

i guess the breakers are easier to fence at the local hardware stores....

it's small stuff...easy to carry. do they even steal switches and sockets sometimes? tha's also small stuff but not worth as much.

OK, I'm not doubting the dollar amount, just having a hard time wrapping my brain around it.

What size breakers were they? (Pinky logic - Seimens 15a SP breaker @ $3.50 x 1000? Narf!)

Have you guys considered using a semi-trailer as a jumbo gang box?

OHHHH NOOOOOOO!!!! They're Back Again!!!

Forgot all about those Clowns!

Thanks for the Heads-Up, Nick!

I can see $35K easilly being ripped off by these dullards!

We lost an easy $5K in one night's sweep by those Jokers - all from switchgear and service sections which were not heated up yet.
Main Breakers of >1000 Amp frames, Subfeed Breakers of >225 Amp Frames - only all < 480 VAC (240 VAC equipment).

The following crime spree was not so profitable for these bone heads - as the Transformers were live and ready.
Still did not detour them, and they tried again to steal - starting with the 1000 Amp Main Breaker for one certain section.

Must have been 1:1 Fireworks show for that Clown, once the Ratchet Wrench bolted across the Øs!
500 KVA Transformer < 25 feet from Breaker; Bolted L-L-L fault: a test condition SCA calc in its best!
(very morbid thoughts from me,,, sorry!).

Must be the hazards one has to "Face" in that "Trade".
...Pun definitely intended!

Scott35

Doug,
There were several 1200A frame 480V Square D Micrologic electronic breakers. List price off the shelf can easily reach several thousand dollars each. A couple guys that know what they are doing can get them out and off the job in no time.
Scott,
They are usually very active in your neck of the woods. The job I mentioned before was right around the corner from your house. You know, the ugly one along Ball Rd. & the 5 freeway that changes colors depending on the angle you view it from. (Oh, that famous Mouse also has his administrative offices there )

Knew you had to be talking about a little bigger than the neighborhood hardware store variety!

so can we assume a thriving black market in our trade?

~S~

Isn't that the case with almost any trade?

Masons steal cement and substitute with sand.
Bricks and block walk off sites....

Sheet metal and iron workers probably make off with welding rods (easilly fence-able). What's a box of nails....some doorknobs, hinges....etc.

I'm sure the occasional plumber may make off with a few valves or even a blowtorch.

An electrician (or a friend of one, details are fuzzy) who was working on the refurbishing of Grand Central Terminal in New York tried pawning off one of the old light fixtures to an antique store. He said someone had let him take it. The dealer put it up for auction.

These fixtures were supposed to be re-furbished and cleaned and re-installed, not removed and replaced. Someone saw the auction, recognized the fixture for what it was and reported it to the police. The dealer ratted out the crook.

What's that country song about the guy who gets a job at a Cadillac plant and over the period of a few years manages to sneak an entire car out in his lunchbox?

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 01-14-2004).]

The late, great Johnny Cash: One Piece at a Time (and it didn't cost me a dime).

And what's even sadder about the whole situation is if one of these slugs were to get electrocuted in the process, their family would probably try to sue claiming things should have been made more sucure.

Well now....I get on the forum for the first time and find out there are problems above and below the 49th....

My experience having managed some large industrial installations is that a lot of the shrinkage on-site is insider stuff....(staff)

None-the-less....the added cost of theft only makes it more difficult for the honest contractor to make a living, eh?

In my neck of the woods, generators, drills, and other essential tools seem to walk with regularity.

I can't discount the odd problem with white collar crime either...I visited a summer home of a senior exec and the carpeting was strangely similar to the installation for the board room of the hospital project we were doing.

Any way, just got carried away on the subject

Recently we have had "theft" of a different kind. Counterfeit and/or refurbished breakers from the orient with fake ULC/CSA stickers.....Some are using new boxes with breakers salvaged from fires, demolitions etc.

Doug..............et al

Saw a thread here a while ago about the booming business of faking UL/CSA labels - IIRC, US Customs has several shipping container lots full of fakes - "labeled" and "listed" stem to stern.

The problem appears to be that it's more of a civil (copyright) infringment than a criminal (safety) issue to the US government, so enforcement is a low priority. Besides, they've got a hard enough time screening all of the inbound cargo for chem/rad/bio signatures - who really cares about a defective outlet with a bogus sticker, right:

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 01-14-2004).]

Where the heck does all this stuff go?

I occasionally sell breakers that I've pulled out (legally, and getting paid for it, only ones that would otherwise go in the trash) to a local breaker house. Fishing $.
They have a photocopy of my driver's license, and require it and my signature every time I go in to sell something like a 25 year old I-line destined for the dumpster.

They know me as a regular customer, as I buy there often as well.

We've been ripped in LA, Lakewood, City of Industry, Riverside...These are all miles apart, and they all reek of the same "Modus Operandi". Almost surgical removal (except for Industry, where they took every bit of Cu in the building larger than #6, and left a Corona bottle in the middle of the floor).

There's a way crooked breaker guy somewhere out here. Where on earth can someone sell a 2000 Amp 600V breaker, brand new, and not raise an eyebrow of suspicion?

Nick, thanks alot for the heads-up...S




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 01-14-2004).]

One disgusting aspect of this is that the “surplus-equipment dealer” probably only pays a nickel on the dollar for the “used” gear.

...Where on earth can someone sell a 2000 Amp 600V breaker, brand new, and not raise an eyebrow of suspicion?

Where else, ebay!

On a continuing story on post by electur, we caught an electricians apprentice in cahoots with the skip operater on a 26 story building stealing the copper from the plumbers, fitters and electicians.

The were as bold as brass loading copper pipe from 10 and 20ft lengths of 1/2" to 5" copper and reels of branch wiring (#12 and up) onto the skip. Their claim to anyone that asked was they had to do cleanup after hours because the general didn't want to slow the job down by having the skip used for claanup during the day.

Another group got caught stealing all the lead covered 15KV cable removed from a large farm implement manufacturing company. The cops had a stake out at the scrap yard and called the electricians company to verify the legality of the sale to the scrap dealer.

We had another group try to steal the Stainless Steel antennae ground plane used for 3 "Texas Towers" transmitters of a local radio station. (tons of stainless installed by one of my friends who was a hard hat diver).

And to wrap it all up, another group of uglies found out the grounding conductor for an older radio station was copper. They got a row boat and were able to grapple it, pull it to the surface and cut it into 4ft lengths. It got pretty heavy in the little row boat.

As for large air breakers etc. I find that a
A number of independent breaker and switchboard refurbishing installed switchboards rarely get asked where they acquired the breaker that just got the complex back on-line after a major failure....

I think its more difficult trying to resell something like a 3000 amp network protector or some such device because they are unique and brand name. Eaaaasy movers are soft starters and newer technology that no-one will ever see again. Mind you if someone tries to get warranty on a unit questions could/should be asked, BUT.............

Cheers.......

doug........et al

DougW:


I've read something like that also.

It mystifies me as to why its done because you don't need to have most small electrical devices (like triple-taps, night-lights, plugs, fans and extension cords) listed by UL in order to sell them.

So....why risk confiscation and fines? Just sell the darned things without the UL label....people will still buy them. In fact, I have some radios, extension cords, light-socket adapters, a power strip and even a 100 watt soldering gun (bought that yesterday) that are not UL listed. I even had a Taiwanese electric fan that was sans UL listing but that sucker died a few years back....

Now, I'm not condoning the purchase of non-ETL certified gear, but the fact is, it's available. Easily. Go to any dollar store or job-lot discounter.

So, why do these manufacturers go through the hassle of counterfeiting the UL certificates?

Oh I dont know.....mabey for liability protection. Or the ability to sell a product that can not be sold any other way unles it has the UL or CSA or CSA/UL sticker.

I can only state that in Ontario, Canada the Ontario Electical Safety Code makes it illegal to advertise, display or offer for sale or other disposal, or sell or otherwise dispose of any electrical equipment unless it has been approved in accordance with Rule 2-024

Rule 2-024 is the Approval of Electrical Equipment and includes certification by the CSA or the UL/ULC
http://www.csa-international.org/

It is, I guess, a oint of view, n'est pas?

Doug....et al

point taken DGT

Maybe these people are worth a gander?



(i've asked them to comment)

~S~

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 01-18-2004).]