..Hi Gang!!
..Just getting over my Christmas hiatus, and was on my way home this afternoon when I "got the call"...Power outage in a commercial building...OK, so I responded,only to find 1/2 a dozen utility trucks,a CRANE,..and Fire personnel,milling about in the parking lot...I pulled in and was swamped by the staff of a courier service with requests that I turn around,and go home....they didn't want to go back to work and told me to "take all the time I needed"...I laughed at this,and proceeded to see what was awry...The 3-phase 265/460v. 50kw "pot" had burned to a crisp...I was stunned!!! Then with the help of the utility guys,opened up the 400a. CT cabinet only to find one 750mcm.Aluminum THW cable "welded" to the 4"connector,melted right thru the fiber bushing and all...My 1st assumption was that the 750mcm.cable had "chafed" against the connector, arced and created a ground fault and burned up another phase along with it.This assumption was substantiated by the utility inspector and the crew chief.So here I am,now having to re-pull 2 sets of 4-500mcm.copper conductors,and had to call my buddy,who is also an E.C. for help..I don't have the man-power nor the winch with which to pull these lines..All this and I have to coerce these guys to work on New Years Eve...I gladly told my buddy I'll go in half with him on the proceeds....Oh well, it could be worse,I could be starving!!I guess Thank God for "small" favors!!!HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!!PLEASE DRIVE SAFELY!!!!

Sounds like a very expensive service call, I hope you made it worth your while.

AR,
How are you going to put 2 sets of 4-500mcm.copper conductors in a raceway without pulling equipmnet?

How far are you going?

Bob

..That's where my buddy comes in,...he has an elaborate supply of winches,pulleys,etc...it still is going to be a hard job pulling,...it's 85' from point to point....
AR

..Oh yeah,it ain't gonna be cheap...thats for certain!!
AR

AR with your name I was not sure if you had dealt with 500 kcmil much.

It is a about 1.15 pound per foot so just the weight of your pull will be 391 pounds. I assume you have two raceways.

Getting it around corners will make that 391 pounds feel like a truck is parked on it.

Day 1..
..After a harrowing morning on the phone with my supply houses,I finally found one who would deliver the 960'of #500mcm THHN to the jobsite...Everybody was closing early yesterday,and I had to act fast...$2.84/ft. for copper!!! My prtner in this job grossly underestimated the cost per foot..He figured about $1.50/ft..oh well,we're already losing money...I then had to "fly" to the PSE&G distributing yard and pick up the 3 new 400a.CT's,as the old ones were toasted...At about 12:00pm, we finally ripped out one set of the old char-broiled #750mcm,aluminum wire from one of the 4"pipes..We were able to pull in the new set of 4-500mcm.copper to the CT cabinet.Now comes the NIGHTMARE,..when we pulled the other set out,the lines had evidently burned thru,and only 25' or so came out..the remaining 60"+ was still welded together inside the underground pipe..After spending a small fortune at Grainger,my buddy's electric winch failed, and so did his block and tackle..we bought some new hardware...but in spite of ALL efforts to extricate the remaining wire,we failed..miserably!! That wire was not coming out,it must have welded itself to the inside of the pipe,and we couldn't break it..I told him that probably even if we succeeded in getting the lines out,the pipe inside must have slag deposits in it,if...it isn't broken thru,and open underground..We are gonna have to go back there on Friday,and get a backhoe,and dig out the bad pipe..replace it,and then pull the new lines...Thats about it,for now,I'll keep you guys posted ....
AR

Sorry to hear that AR.

Copper prices have been rising significantly lately.

..Now it comes down to re-negotiating with the owner..the estimated price I gave her doesn't apply anymore..we weren't counting on excavating....At this point tho' she really has no choice in the matter,..she has 3 tenants,and they're losing business by the day...We told her that if all went well,we could've had her up and running by Friday..now it's a different story...
AR

I will tell you we do work like this all the time.

Always T&M we do not need the practice and it is hard to predict (as you found out) where the job will lead.

Good Luck, explain to the customer that their insurance company should be involved.

Be careful in saying you will be complete by a certain time or you could be paying for lost business beyond that time.



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 01-01-2004).]

265/460?

..Yeah, thats what the old xfrmr was rated at..now we have to go in and change the primary taps on all 3 of the step-down xfrmr's in the building..they are now set at..460,and we have to change them to 480...

My question is ...where did this catastrophe start..? ..in the 4" pipe,which by the way,had about 30 gallons of water in it and the inspector said that THW isn't water resistant..isn't it tho'?? or did it begin in the CT cabinet,with the one phase grounding out and backfeeding,therefore blowing up the pots??..or was it the old xfrmr itself..??

Yes, THW is rated for underground (wet location), however, I see alot of problems with buried AL. It tends to turn into powder, causeing high resistence=heat=burnt wires. We run into this all the time. By the way, if one of my customers had no power, my guys wouldn't be going home until the lights were back on. Cheaper for the customer to pay our overtime and opening charges at the supply house than to reimburse 3 tenents for there down time.
Richard

Well, the worst is over....we tied everything in last nite, and was actually ahead of schedule...The power co. messed us up by not sending a crew on New Years Day..I watched and crossed myself as the lineman threw the switches up at the pole...We received an applause once the lights came on,and we were happy too,..happy it was finally over that is...Bad part of the saga is that some S.O.B. came and stole the wire we left for taking to the salvage yard the next day...I hope it serves them well....NOT!!!

At least he stole the salvage after the job was completed, and not your new stuff after delivery!

Glad to hear you made it through. Couple of questions. Did you have to excavate and if so how did it go? Did you finally rent a tugger to help you through the pull?Again congrats on "pulling through" (no pun intended )

[This message has been edited by elektrikguy (edited 01-04-2004).]

AR — Very Long Shot, but maybe a few calls to local scrap dealers with a head’s up/description of material/question... In NorCal, scrap dealers are wary of folks off the street with sudden ‘goldmines.’ It’s sort of a cat-and-mouse game, but law enforcement can indirectly ‘pressure’ dealers into questioning goods origins.

...
Thanx,elektrikguy,
..Yeah,we tore up the lot a bit,and repaired what we had to,..My buddy had an electric hoist/winch,whatever ya callit,and with some swearin' and fightin', we got it out...until those motherless crack-heads stole our salvage wire...burns me up,...nothing is ever safe...ya gotta watch it like a hawk....they'll steal from their own families...

Anything that is not nailed, bolted,or locked is fair game for those ______thieves and that may not be enough.

I have a question,how common was 265/460?Buying 265 volt ballasts has to be as easy as finding ZINSCO bolt on breakers.

AR,
Just great to see that you got the power flowing again!.
Must have been a GREAT feeling once you had the full voltage back.
And as for the loser that stole your wire, I have to go along w/ Bjarney on that one, check out the scrap dealers, over the years here, we've lost thousands in disappearing AL wire, but hey, the scrap guy's know where all thier stuff is coming from.
If you catch them, have one for me, bud!.

Sorry about the 2nd posting but.
After all the trials and so forth with this job.
How did things pan out with the owner?.
What did you make/lose AR?.
Just inquisitive.