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Posted By: rowdyrudy Pride in Workmanship - 09/05/03 07:32 PM
I was an apprentice working with my dad. This was in about 1948. We were installing 1-1/4” EMT above a dropped ceiling. The EMT needed a kick. My dad bent it and handed it up to me. It wasn’t bent quite enough but I forced it onto the coupling. My dad said “Does it fit”? I said not quite but I made it. He said “Give it back to me”. I said why, no one’s going to see it. I have never forgotten his reply, “But I’ll know it’s there”!
Rowdy
Posted By: rmiell Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/05/03 08:46 PM
Sounds like a good man. You sound like a better man for not forgetting. Man, I wish I knew 1/2 of what my dad did. Sure miss him!!

Rick
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/05/03 10:24 PM
Rowdy,
Quote
“But I’ll know it’s there”!
This is one thing I have been trying to instill into the apprentices that I have trained.
A Tradesman is measured by thier workmanship or lack there of. [Linked Image]
Just can't stand the sight of rough or un-tidy Installation work!.
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/05/03 10:47 PM
I too can remember my dad, he was a tough guy and taught me the trade.

He once made me straighten out the tubing on a wall because his level showed where it was not straight, I said dad I only followed the block on the wall!

I say that they were "Seasoned Mechanics" and without them where would we be today.

Any young person starting out in our trade has it a bit easier now and they too will follow to help others learn this trade.

Joe
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/05/03 10:48 PM
...

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 09-06-2003).]
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 12:28 AM
My Dad was an inspector for the state DOT. I once saw him stop a major concrete pour on a bridge because neither the rebar or the concrete was in spec.

The contractor said "Nobody will ever know" His reply was " It ain't right and we'll know,and when this bridge cracks,everyone will know"

The pride and principles described in this thread seem to be the norm for the older generations.

Russell

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 09-05-2003).]
Posted By: wolfdog Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 12:28 AM
Joe, you're repeating yourself. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Sandro Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 03:32 AM
Hallelujah.......I knew I couldn't possibly be the *only* person who cared about quality and workmanship. I love the trade and do my very best on every installation. Sadly, most guys value speed over quality in their installations.

It makes me feel better knowing that others share the same view as myself.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 03:41 AM
Sandro,
You're quite right there, mate.
You guys should see how the *competitive* sparkies wire new houses over here.
I'd be ashamed to even be associated with with thier quick and cheap methods, most of these houses have about 2 or 3 pin-clips in the whole installation. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Spark Master Flash Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 12:09 PM
I'm amazed at some of the journeymen who act like they're so fast at running MC or pipe, then later I have to make up the boxes they mounted. I found a guy who put one screw in a box to hold it to a box bracket. Some use a self-tapper for a ground screw, and I thought they knew better. Many leave the MC connectors loose and don't put a grounding pigtail in the box as they go, and it's so much harder to correct when the mud ring is on. Another guy leaves the plastic sheath on the wire after the MC is attached to the connector. Another case where it's a lot harder to remove it cleanly after it's in the box. Laziness!

One journeyman bragged about how he ran more pipe than I did, then I got up in the ceiling to learn why. He had his pipe hanging on 12 to 14 foot centers, didn't mount the box, didn't have the pipe supported within 3 feet of the box, didn't ground the box, didn't clean up the end of his pipe after cutting and didn't tighten his connectors. No wonder he's so fast. Too bad it isn't up to code.

I can't stand running pipe without offsetting to the wall from the box, but I see lazy journeymen doing it sometimes. Those lazy ones tend to be the ones who can't bend very well, so they do as little of it as possible.

Rowdyrudy, I like what your dad said: "But I'll know it's there!" It's hard to leave garbage work behind, even in a ceiling. I'd hate to be looked at the same way I look at people who leave behind shoddy work that requires a lot more work to correct. What do people think they're accomplishing by doing things half-assed? Nowadays I track the guy down who left it behind, asking "Who did this work?" Then I ask them why they didn't tighten the ground screw, or the connector. It's nice to find out exactly who did what, then you know who to avoid, and you also learn who never to hire later. You also learn the telltale signs of their work, such as the guy I saw the other night who pinches the cover of MC with needlenose, then twists it back and forth to break it, then puts an anti-short on it. The end of that MC sheath looks like an open shark mouth. Unbelievable!
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 12:21 PM
My father was called meticulous,and a craftsman. I hear people call me rightbrained and anal.

Pierre
Posted By: DougW Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 01:44 PM
I've been guilty of the occasional FUBB when feeling rushed, but generally I try to think, not of what they say today, but what some spark will say in ten or twenty years when the next owner calls for a remodel.

Will he ([pc]or she [/pc] say:

"Man, was this guy thinking!"
or
"Man, what was this guy thinking?"
Posted By: j a harrison Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 06:07 PM
I remember a hell of lot that i was taugh,
but one thing always sticks in my mind my chargehand (master electrician, told me something that i have never forgotten and always work to,

Do it right, or dont do it at all.

that to me spells it all out for me.

as we all know there are plenty of `sparks` who just want to rough in, get out and get as much $ as they can, this is not the way to do it, working fast is not always working safe and tidy.

just my 2 cents worth on this one.

John
Posted By: spkjpr Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/06/03 09:01 PM
We are using a program called "kaizen" where I work right now. It amounts to an unplanned, do it right now, then change it later, mess. Quality does not come into play with this system. Some of the guy's are using Liquid-Tite rather than conduit because it is quicker. It really bothers me to see the pride in work go out the window!
Posted By: jlhmaint Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/07/03 01:16 AM
I know what you mean spkjpr i work industrial maint and I have been asked whats taking so long. Well do you want it done right or half ass then they say ok hurry up. I take alot of pride in my work when people see it i want them to say man look at that, that guy is doing it right and cares.

I wired up my dads new unfinished poll barn today then him and the guy back filling came in and said you don't have them recp wired yet. I said look closer all the wire was sucred and they didn't even notice that it was ran yet. Then started on the lights and dads like you don't need to put those staples so close but when i was finished he said it looked great could hardly see any wires in the building just the box and fixtures. Have to go back finish some lights and outside light and recps and ckt for garage door opener.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/07/03 01:36 PM
I learned the same sort of lessons from my father. He firmly believed in the principles of take your time, "measure twice, cut once" etc.

If he put up a shelf, you could guarantee it would be dead level in all planes. If it was to hold 50 lb. of things, you could pretty much guarantee that a full-grown adult could hang from it without it budging it from the wall.

I endeavor to maintain those high standards that I learned about at an early age.
Posted By: Speedy Petey Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/08/03 12:22 AM
I hear the term "Can't see it from my house" all the time. I can't stand it!
The only thing that I think is like the first post, I know it's there!
Posted By: Dallas Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/08/03 01:31 AM
I used to hear it all the time. "Yeah, it looks good, but how long did it take you?" Here, it's "quick and dirty" that takes the day. Its a big reason why I turn down most house builders any more. I refuse to do the kind of work it takes to compete with the wiring I see these days.

The bad thing is, there's what, a dozen of us talking about this on this site? It sure seems there are fewer and fewer of us in the field willing to do quality work. So, what can the few of us do about the lack of workmanship there is?
Posted By: Bill39 Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/08/03 03:33 PM
The last big job I was on the electricians ran the conduit for the telephone service (2" rigid conduit w/grounding bushing & a lug). When the phone person terminated their wiring, instead of using the ground lug for the ground wire, she drilled a selfdrilling screw through the side of the conduit and attached the ground wire there!!
Posted By: sparky Re: Pride in Workmanship - 09/08/03 10:30 PM
craftsmanship is something of a premium in today's superfical and materialistic society.

i know it when i see it, and i like when i'm let to go the extra mile, yet the brutal truth is, few wish to pay for it
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