Caught the tail-end of an Hgtv show explaining current flow through a recep.

It said" The current flows in from the black wire to the load, and back out on the white wire to THE GROUND"!

It even showed the analogy with a shot of a waterfall,indicating all the return current went right into the ground.

Just makes me angry to think how many folks watched this and took it for the truth.

Russell

Hello Russell

Misinformation is a leading factor to the problems, and the reasons some of the questions here sound like they do.
ATP- American Technical Publisher- shows in one of their text, a ground fault traveling through the person and into a ground rod driven by the location of the fault. And we wonder why there is so much confusion.
A web site showed the same thing, I emailed them and they changed it. We can not keep it all straight, but maybe you could email the station about the show and ask them to make a statement, who knows maybe they will give you a job.

Pierre

LOL,PC. I don't think they'ed hire an 'ol country boy like me,except maybe to sweep the floor.

Btw, the people who post here on a regular basis since I've been coming here,are pretty sharp. I don't think they'ed buy the waterfall theory.

Russell

Unfortunately, HGTV doesn't seem to be concerned as much with accuracy and safety as they should be.
If e-mails about safety and Code violations would get a job with them, I'd be the CEO by now; I've sent a bunch. (mostly ignored)
In the defense of some of their shows, I've seen a couple that recommend the hiring of a "licensed, qualified electrician" for some of the work...S

I recently watched a carpenter get bit by a lighting circuit on Monster House. I thought that was great.

You might be surprised to know how many electricians believe that all current is trying to get to the earth.

This is the most persistent "electrical myth" that I have encountered in 35 years of teaching apprentices.

Ed



[This message has been edited by electric-ed (edited 06-16-2003).]

I once saw an HGTV show demonstrate how to install a ceiling fan. The guy said the blue wire from the fan was for the reverse function. On a rerun of the show, this was edited out.

Kind of like the nonsense where the TV/Movie bomb tech is called upon to dismantle the homemade dynamite bomb taped to the alarm clock, and he hears the voice of his instructor/mentor:

"Cut on black, you're dead, Jack...
Cut the red wire, it won't fire"

and saving the day as a result of this universally applicable "advice".

(Last I heard, there's no NEC (National Explosives installation Code) for mad bombers!)

Oh well. "A little knowledge..."

I love watching the mistakes they make.

you do realize that "they" dont do most of the real work... they are there for the camaras and then back to the dressing rooms, while the real tradesmen come out to do the real work !!??!!

If Dean, MarryAnne or JojO ever had to hang or finnish 50 sheets of dry wall the show would stop for a week of sundays while they did that....

About the only show thats real is NYW with Norm. but he already made a prototype before they started filming... I have caught them a few times using old tape (from the filming of the prototype) I know this because the prototype is not in the frame and he is waring a different flannel shirt.

all fun stuff.


But to your point... being misleading...

our TWO ground rods, whitch are driven into the ground DO attach to the case of out main pannel ...Yes???

the neutral and EGC buss bars are BONDED to the case of the main panel... YES????


The hot lead is black on a standard 120v branch curciut... Yes????
the white wire does return to the main panel... Yes????

So Please explain why to feel it is SO TERRIBLY misleading.

I mean the dirt is not the main path back to the transformer, but is is A path... not THE path...But Why have all these grounding rules, if its not an important part....?



[This message has been edited by RandyO (edited 06-17-2003).]

Randy, the explanation was that all the return current went to the ground or the earth if you prefer. Which we all know is not true.

Russell

Randy, grounding, as in "grounding", is simply for bonding reference and bracing of the system (in this case a MGN system) in high voltage surges. The earth, unless specifically used for a "return to source" conductor, (SWER) would never be considered a circuit path, or in the HGTV meaning, it certainly wouldn't be part of the "source".

Roger

Can you imagine how silly electricity would look to their teevee viewers if someone jokingly said that AC in US and Candian homes actually “reverses its flow 120 times a second”? ;-) ;-) ;-)




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 06-17-2003).]

Randy, the practice of grounding the neutral is debated hotly at times.

One esteemed poster on another forum stated that he "couldn't see why we take one side of a perfectly good supply source and stick it in the dirt"

Russell

My personal favorite Hgtv episode was on the "ask the handiman" series, when they hung an exterior light fixture. The"handyman" had the homeowner do the light fixture installation over new vinyl siding that was installed on the house. First he had her cut back on all that extra conductors to maybe 3/4" of an inch sticking out of the box - "lets get rid of that extra wire we don't need so its easyer to push back the wires into the box". Then he had her push the ground wire back to the rear of the box, without grounding the strap or the fixture. Also followed by "we don't need that wire either." I wish I had this on videotape.

I have to agree with Ed's comments above.

The idea that electricity is always trying to seek a path back to the earth is a myth which seems to be widely accepted as "fact."

Maybe the producers of these sorts of shows think that it would be too complicated to explain that it is seeking a complete path in order to return to its source?

The whole concept of grounding, and referencing voltages to ground seems to be an area which is widely misunderstood.

It kills me to see some of the junk that is on TV. Right now Im working as a courier for a medical laboratory while Im in school. Going through training with the "safety officer" we got to the part on electrical safety. One of the quotes in the literature was that "the ground wire takes excess electricity safely to the earth". That ran all over me!! I didnt say anything to the guy although I wish I had. The safety officer is a really cool dude and wants everything to be as correct as possible.. so maybe somewhere down the line this could be corrected.

On another note I was on another forum for diesel trucks (Mark the French electrician is a member there too). One poster was absolutely serious that the earth must be used as a conductor and that no circuit was complete without it! Trying to present a valid arguement as to why systems are grounded was just not believed by this person. The bad part was other posters were backing him up even when electricians on the forum were stating otherwise.

That reminds me of a the argument from another forum some months ago where the guy just couldn't accept the current/voltage/resistance relationship.

Do you have a link to that thread Dave?

How does the electricity work in airplanes?

Heres the link. I dont know if it will hyperlink from this page. If not just copy and paste it.
The post to read is from South 40.

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubb...sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Wow Dave! just goes to show there's a lot of bad information floating around.

I believe it was Ed who once said" It's impossible to have a technical conversation with a non-technical person"

You just have to shrug at guys like this and move on.

Russell

[This message has been edited by US Coreman (edited 06-27-2003).]

While watching HGTV's Designers Challenge last night, an interior designer, as well as the homeowner, remodeled their master bath. The owner wanted a real "vintage" fixture for over the tub. They chose a real, late 1900's, crystal chandiler. They placed it over the tub. It was within reach of someone standing within. Clearly a violation of 2002 NEC 410.4 (d). I'm sure that there were no permits on the job, and no inspection.

Interior designers are fine, but they seem to place esthetics in front of common sense, and dealing with codes and laws.

[This message has been edited by US Coreman (edited 06-27-2003).]

Thanks for the link Dave. I'm afraid that South_40 seems to have fallen into the "electricity always tries to get to ground" trap, although that How Stuff Works page doesn't exactly do much to set the record straight, does it?

There seemed to be a bit of confusion over the voltages on his 480V delta system too!

daveb yeah i do agree with you but main moot point that some other person on the other forum dont really get the grasp about the grounding and etc related with safety what we spend alot of time to read the nec and some of the other member in the other forums really get the message hard all we did try to steer it right but unforenlty some are hard head i wish we can meet that person in face to face to explain the fact in nice way but really some peoples just dont grasp the simple rules we deal with it


merci marc

Marc
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Its just that sometimes they have been taught certain things and are totally unwilling to accept that things may actually be different. Im sure that every one of those guys in that forum are great in person.. and meeting face to face with some drawings as well as a discussion would help greatly.

Safety is the main point and I think it is very hard to explain some things using forums like these. Its even harder when the persons reading the posts are untrained individuals.

Well I sent them an e-mail explaining the possible dangers of their statements on the show.

Their reply was something to the effect of they would forward my message to their program director.

Disclaimer at the bottom of the page said " Information or ideas expressed on these shows carry no guarantees of fitness for a particular purpose, blah blah
blah. What a crock!

Hang on for a second, guys.
What is the Neutral in the US tied to, at the switch-board?.
It may be different in the US, to a certain extent, but ALL power systems are referenced to EARTH, for safety reasons!.
This is why a fuse blows when a 110kV line hits the ground, with no earth return, this would not happen!.
Hey, I only come from New Zealand, what do I know.