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Posted By: Redsy Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/19/03 12:06 PM
I am going to start another hot topic...

Seeing the "House next door" post, I would like to say one should remove the jacket fron NM cables prior to insertion into the box. This permits visual inspection of the insulation for damage. I know the "new breed" method is to stuff the whole cable in and stick a utility knife up into the box and score the jacket then pull it off. I have debated this with several young residential guys. I have also seen slits in the insulation perfectly in line with the jacket line. The last time, I experienced a short while adjusting a receptacle. Guess what the cause was? I now insist that anyone who works with me prep the cable beforehand. I will not live with the question of whether or not my wires are sizzling behind someones bedroom wall.

Bring it on!! [Linked Image]
Posted By: txsparky Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/19/03 12:44 PM
Im with you all the way Redsy. I strip before they go into the box(seems easier to me),and make up the joints as each box is completed.Pretwisting Of Course! [Linked Image]
Posted By: Big A Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/19/03 12:45 PM
Hello Redsy,

The only problem that I would have with this is the fact that you need the jacket in the "clip" or squeeze connector to be code compliant. Otherwise I like the concept and if you take a little time, you could strip the jacket just right to work with the "clip".

I also install receptacles with the ground up, but sorry, I don't pre-twist.
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/19/03 01:46 PM
I agree, Redsy,

Cut generously to length allowing enough scrap to use for pigtails during makeup, strip the sheath and insert into the box.
[Linked Image from klein.sgsnet.com]
For resi work, I'm partial to the Klein #1412 "One-Tool-Does-It-All". Cuts the cable, cuts the sheath in one squeeze, strips the conductor, bends loops - good for 14/2 & 12/2 NM.

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 03-19-2003).]
Posted By: electrician02125 Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/19/03 09:38 PM
I'm with Redsy.

The klein 1412 romex tool is a must have for residential. This tool will pay for itself real fast.

I always remove the sheath before landing in the box for wire inspection and arrangement purposes.

I also arrange my conductors beforehand so they line up nice once landed inside the box (whites next to whites, blacks next to blacks.....) I usually have to flip the romex somewhere before it enters the box to accomplish this but you'll never see that once the walls are closed.
Posted By: sparky Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/19/03 09:58 PM
I used to study the methods of all those that i worked under as an apprentice and J-man.
I still do, and identify the nomenclature of most of my local counterparts.

I like to wire so that it will outlive me, which takes more time in general that the 'new breed speed jockeys'

Those who rough out by just stuffing unstripped RX in boxes spend more time messing with it for trim out anyways, all that this really serves is to 'beat the rocker'
Posted By: Fred Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/19/03 11:50 PM
I strip the jacket, twist the bare grounds and install a "greenie" and roll up the wires real good and as far back in the box as possible to avoid the rotozip bit. When it's time for pluggin' and switchin' it goes real fast. If it's a GFCI that feeds down stream receptacles I strip about 1/2" off of the ends of the "line" pair in the box. I do the same thing to the home run in the first receptacle box it hits. I also mark the floor in front of the home run boxes with red paint in case the GC needs an outlet heated up early for lights or a heater to help dry the mud.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/20/03 01:28 AM
Redsy & all:
I hate to rain on the parade of the "new breed", but they would not pass a "rough" inspection here.
RX sheath has to be off, grounds spliced thru w/tail. The other "splices & tails" are optional, unless it's a multi-wire circuit.

BTW guys, I'm with you...my guys make up all the splices/tails for rough. We do the paint on the floor thing too.

John
Posted By: Electric Eagle Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/20/03 03:01 AM
Hotline,
I think you missunderstand what the "new breed" does. They push the RX in the box, then take a box cutter and score the sheathing, pull off the sheathing and make the taps as normal. So the box is ready to go for rough inspection.

I resisted this "style" of wiring for a long time, but now have move to the dark side myself. This is now the method we encourage. We have seen too much damage from prestripping the old way by twisting the wire in your strippers. On several occassions we had new helpers completely cut through a conductor or 2. The new method does not harm the conductors or inner sheathing.

Pretwist if 3 or more wires, ground down.

[This message has been edited by Electric Eagle (edited 03-19-2003).]
Posted By: arseegee Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 04:21 AM
Gotta go with eagle on this one. All cables in the box first, stapled up and then stripped. I check all the time to make sure NO conductors are nicked. Had a guy back in 98 screw up some wires with one of those klein romex strippers. Ever since i have not allowed those things on the job. We pulled 19K ft of 12/2 since March 10th. Speed does count but a safe installation is top priority.

More than two wires - pre twist.
Grounds down... (unless specs call for grounds up)
Posted By: Scott35 Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 08:07 AM
For the few Residential based projects "Under My Belt", did the same as Rojosy [Linked Image] - as to the stripping of the NM Sheath outside the box.

Figure enough to bring in at least ½" of sheathing inside the box, strip sheath - but pull only an inch or so upwards, leaving the sheath encompassing the wires (makes easier to run through box K.O.s and such), insert cable(s) into box, secure with staple(s), remove loose sheaths, make-up splices, move on to next outlet.

Just my way of doing things - obviously cannot leave the Commercial Realm! (Inspectors have made comments about "How Much Of A Shame It Will Be To Cover The Walls With Drywall And Hide The NM Cable"...only because of the "Art Work"). Those comments were very nice indeed! Although I would definitely starve if Residential was my main field and tried to install that way always!

Scott35

BTW: Pre-twist splices, ground pin up when in a location that could benifit from this orientation (or if in the job specs).

S.E.T.
Posted By: Redsy Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 01:01 PM
I hate to be stubborn, but I believe the proper method, or at least the best practice, is to remove the jacket first. If the installer damages the conductor or insulation while stripping at that point, it is due to poor practice and he is just as likely to damage it at any point in time.
I simply can't see how you can use the utility knife technique, after the cables are inserted, and be confident that the insulation is not slit also.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 01:13 PM
Wouldn't using one of those "cable rippers" designed for NM cable be easier than using a box cutter to slit the insulation?

Or can these also damage the internal insulation if you're not careful with such a tool anyway?
Posted By: Mvannevel Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 01:30 PM
I was always a strip the sheath first kind of guy. Once you get used to it, it's not hard to make sure you've got enough sheath in the box. Never liked to see my guys use Stanley knives to strip the sheath either. Spent my share of time fixing "accidents" that occured when they did it. I was always partial to the cable ripper. Saftey first, then neatness (yes, neatness does count). Oh yeah, twist first; grounds down...
Posted By: GEO Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 01:53 PM
grounds up --twisted. GEO
Posted By: mickky Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 03:03 PM
Do you guys first strip a length of wire, wrap it around a terminal, and break off the excess, or do you just make a loop in the end of the wire?


-more than 3, pre twist.
-ground up
-never backstab!!
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Pre-twist, Ground up, and... - 03/21/03 03:33 PM
If I'm dealing with solid wire I just make a loop at the end of the (pre-stripped) wire....I usually use one of those screwdrivers with the little looping posts in the handle.

If it's stranded zip cord around the terminal screw of a lamp-holder or a plug, I strip a little bit more than necessary so I can grab the tip with my fingers and wrap around the terminal screw. After the screw is tightened I use the tiny side-cutters for trimming the excess.

Maybe I should start doing the same with solid wire...it seems easier.

I pretwist solids and solid/stranded even if it's two wires.

Stranded, I let the wirenut take care of it. Never had a tight-fitting nut come off -always give them a little tug after they're tightened...just to make sure.

Outlets are ground down - because a lot of the heavy duty cords I use have right-angle plugs that point ground down and the cord exits down also.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 03-21-2003).]
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