I have a customer that I think is trying to retire me by buying Chinese Equipment that has no prints or electrical scehmatics whatsoever. These are huge paper splitters. This last one isn't three weeks old and started acting up two days into running. If you never seen how our "Friends" over there make things, you're in for a treat. As cheap as possible. I have ordered a size four and size five starter to replace these flimsey things. Sorry to vent on ya'll, but I had to somewhere, my wife is tired of it. She told me to tell'm to stick it, but I reminded her of the green stuff she likes to spend. It's just pathetic when he thinks he gets a good deal, then complains to me because of how much I'm costing him. I told him it wasn't me that was costing him, he was the one buying the junk. I'll get off my stump now. Have a good one.

Smurf,
What sort of equipment are you talking about?, a paper splitter?.
I've seen heaps of this Chinese rubbish over here in NZ, the quality of this stuff varies from shonky to downright illegal, you name it:
Light Fittings, Socket-Outlets, Transformers,
etc, they all use the cheapest method of construction.
New Zealand is a dumping ground, for all this s**t.
If it does not comply with our Regs, over here, I simply refuse to install it, tough!,
should have purchased something of decent quality, this has resulted in I don't know how many run-in's, with my Boss, who cares, I am signing off the job!.

A tightwad cardboard printer down here went through this same phase years ago. He bought a bunch of used printing equipment at what he said was a steal. It had (U.S.) Motors all over it. So he thought it was very compatable here. Voltages all over the place. Starters not sized right. And not to mention the non OEM modifications that had been attempted on it. The guy that trained me years back worked over there every evening six months to get them going. I'd go by and take him supper just to get to watch him work. Needless to say the printer didn't save any money. Served him right for trying to squeeze a buck too hard.

[This message has been edited by joeh20 (edited 03-13-2003).]

We're seeing more Chinese-made electrical fittings in Britain as well. Some of them are just outright junk.

I've yet to find even simple screwdrivers or pliers made in China that aren't poorly aligned, not hardened, or that don't fall apart as soon as you use them on anything stronger than hot butter! Either they can't make quality tools and equipment, or they only export the cheap trash.

pauluk, you hit the nail on the head! we only see their "export quality" stuff, and the standard, over there, is "make it as cheaply as we can, so that, even after paying the tariffs, we can still show a 200+% profit." actually, they really do have some very high quality products in china, but the outside world never see's it. they are a world leader in the uses of aluminum alloys, but the stuff we see is made from "clay-infused pot metal", and, recycled woks, (with the food still baked on).

gramps

Hello All,

I guess it's time for me to jump on the box for awhile. Question; Whose buying all this Chinese crap? Why are we buying all this Chinese crap? The biggest retailer in the US is Wal-Mart and do you think they give a rats a$$ where the stuff is made?

We are the only ones that can stop the infiltration of this junk from over-seas. It grinds me when people complain about the loss of American jobs and then go to Wally World and buy Chinese crap so they can save a buck. Don't these people realize that they are the problem? I guess it's human nature to place the blame on someone or something else. I'll get off now. JMO Adam

Echo that. I managed to trace the ultra-cheap no-name breakers sold here to the Chinese manufacturer. Their hompage reveal that they have two lines of breakers: One with quality breakers, and one with breakers that the manufacturer claims to be substandard. Guess which breakers are sold here?

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 03-13-2003).]

When I said paper splitter, I should have clarified. These machines are capable of holding a roll of Kraft paper about 8 ft. in diam and 6-8ft. long. They have a motor up front that pulls the paper and rewinds it as the cutters on top cut the one big roll into however as many rolls they need. I guess the worst thing is I can't shut it off when I get home. I'll have it on my mind for a long time. The contol panel is 6ft. tall and 5ft wide, full of red wire. I had to get a x-transformer with 480v. delta to 380Y/220v sec., 112kva. The controls are all 220v. This just one. They have three.

Smurf

Don't know where your from but up here in Canada (Ontario for sure) all equipment must have a CSA or equivalent approval before it can be used. That's everything from an light bulb to a Paper cutting machine such as you talking about.

Maybe your local inspection authority (electrical) or Department of Labour might be interested in (Anonymously) knowing that there is some equipment in your facility that is not approved. (I'm assuming it's not approved)

I'm from Ontario and actually had to completely rewire a few machines that came in from places such as your speaking about.
I'll tell you the customer/owner thought twice for the next one he purchased.

He got nailed both sides, Safety and Electrical compliance.

No such requirements here. It looks like I'll end up practically rewiring this one. One machine has had no problems, but this one has had all interlocks changed, two timers and one 8-pin plug-in relay in the first 8 hours of use. It has a 75 hp. motor that starts in Y connection then in 10 seconds switches to Delta. Here is where the rub is. If the delta relay is slow the the seal in relay drops out and delta tries to come in and the cycle starts. The Y relay already has lost its coil. JUNK!!!!

Gramps, this is true. I think it's the case with every country in the world. You manufacture the good stuff for your home market and export the crap.

I'm sure the average Chinese mechanic uses Chinese-manufactured tools that are as good as anything that Snap-On or Maco has put out. Ditto the average Chinese electrician.

Wiring devices and cordsets produced for the People's Republic of China domestic market must carry the CCEE mark (commonly referred to as the Great Wall Mark). Anything you see with this Mark is of reasonably good quality (at least that's been my experience).

This is the recognized approvals authority in PRC. The emblem looks like this:



In 2002, the State Administration of the People's Republic of China for Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine has announced a new Safety License System implementation requiring mandatory Safety License approval for 132 product categories.

The new Safety Mark is called CCC and replaced the previous CCIB and CCEE mark. The new system went into effect on May 1st, 2002 and grants existing CCIB and CCEE mark approved products a 12 months conversion period.

This is the new Mark:


Personally I liked the looks of the Great Wall Mark better...it looked unique.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 03-13-2003).]

It can just as well be the other way round: High cost countries can only export quality, or they would price themselves out of the market. E.g. German cars have a good reputation abroad, as people think of Mercedes and BMW. Ordinary Germans drive Opels and Fords, the quality of which...erm...leave something to be desired.

Smurf, sorry for the threadjack!

it would be really great if we could go back to the day when we could effectively "pick and choose" whether we wanted to buy "American" or a cheap, foreign copy. but, in reality, i think we would be hard-pressed, these days, to find much that is 100% American-made. the Buzzward "global marketplace" that became so popular in the late 70's, into the 80's, has pretty much inundated the industrial base of this country. i did a little research this morning, and, i'm so sorry to say that, in the automobile industry, hondas and toyotas made in this country,percentage-wise have more american-made parts in them than ford or chevy!....my dad and grandad are rolling over in their grave, right now......


gramps

This might get some flames tossed at me, but here it goes!...

I do not care which Country any Equipment is Manufactured in (I am all for the Global Economy idea).

I do care when ANY Manufacturer produces CRAP!!!
I hate crap Equipment!!!
It flat out SUCKS!!! Buying crap does not save any money, it only COSTS MORE!!!

As with my major Dispise of crap Equipment, the classic "Leaping Over Dollars To Get To Dimes" mentallity that goes along with the purchasing of said crap items, is equally hated!
This thought process has transformed into more like "Pole-Vaulting Over $100 Dollar Bills To Get To Pennies", and must be stopped!!!

Stepping off the soapbox.

Scott35 S.E.T.

Next Venting Person, Please Take The Soapbox Now!

Hey Scott,
Who is going to flame you, for expressing a view, that is pretty much world-wide, all though outside of China and a few other Asian countries that produce this rubbish!.
The unfortunate thing about this whole thing,
is the fact, that people actually buy this crap and they are doing it in droves.
SvenNYC, I must remember that CCC mark, I've never seen it before, even with all the Chinese products we import over here, does this mean that the products we have here, have not even passed QC(Quality Control)?.

Trumpy, as far as I can tell, the certification marks that I slapped on the board are just for the People's Republic of China market.

I guess it's similar to Nemko, Demko, UL, CSA, etc. except it's mandatory, unlike UL.

It's really tempting to see and want to buy these nice shiny socket sets in the stores, only to realize that they're Mickey Mouse knuckle breakers. A Snap-On set is in the hundreds of dollars....well out of the reach of many Joe Shadetree fellows.

Mickey Mouse tools are OK...for once in a while use....in an emergency when you're stuck. But for serious work, you have to stick with the good stuff. I can't say enough about what a pleasure it is to work with properly finished and sized screwdrivers especially.

I've noticed the pipe wrenches being sold at Home Depot come from China....but the one I used gave no problems....of course I only used it once..so who knows.

As far as "Buy American" is concerned, it's easy to say that, but sometimes you don't have a choice because the product just isn't there.

I would love a nice cassette recorder manufactured in the USA, but there are none. EVERYTHING is made in P.R.C. Same thing with those portable 5" mono-chrome TV sets...all made in China (probably by one big company)...

A lot of tool companies are moving manufacturing overseas. Stanley (a brand I respected) is making hammers in Taiwan now.

Are they Mickey-Mouse? I dunno. They seem nice, but I'm afraid to try...considering the bad reputation that Far-East Asian tools have created here.

The last hammer I bought was Chinese. Head made in China, handle made of American hickory. The damned head wobbles a bit...and I can't add another wedge or see what the problem is because they potted that hole in the top with tar!!

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 03-16-2003).]