hello,
my name is simon, i live in the uk and trying to get more experience and qualifications. but, i have been thinking about going to the usa to work and possible migrate. in the future obviously. i am looking for the best explanation of qualifications and requirements. i was thinking about getting a book about it as i prefer reading from a book than internet screen. but there dont seem to be any in england. is there a site that explains what is required along with qualifications that are acceptable. i have seen some online courses. are these acceptable?
thanks

You will find we really have no national standard. This is regulated by state and local governments. If I was going to start, I would get the National Electric Code Handbook. That is the code with footnotes explaining what they are talking about. Guys like Mike Holt have web sites with useful information too. You could also get a "homeowner" book like the Time Life wiring guide, that gives a superficial explanation of how we do things. You should still be cross referencing that with the actual code though because they tend to skip over some important details. . You will find out pretty fast, not only do we drive on the wrong side of the road, we also do a lot of other things quite differently over on this side of the pond. We did start adding metric designations to the NEC so you will have a little common ground to work with.

I am sure folks here will be happy to help you out with questions. We have been looking for something to talk about

Hi Simon,
Welcome to ECN!,
What sort of qualifications do you currently have?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be nosy, it would be handy to know how much experience you have.

Cheers,
Mike T.

Hello,
thanks for the replies.
i have a btec level 3 electrical installation, which is a technical certificate. the same as the level 3 city and guilds for that time. though things have changed a little.
18th edition wiring regulations
currently doing my inspection and testing cert, but that is put on hold due to covid, set to do the first exam in about three weeks, not sure how that will work. but it is the visual inspection with classification codes and short written exam. i think that could be done online.
i have a level 3 marine electrician cert as well. also, hnc electronics. this is a level 4 qualification equal to the first year of a degree in the uk.

You'll find that testing and inspection as done in Europe isn't really a thing in the US - inspections are mainly limited to visual inspection and functional testing. No IR testing, no PFC/PSC testing, no Zs, nothing. I think there's an older thread on this board on this very topic.

If you really want to break things, a job at a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab might be for you. Over on the continent it would be TUV. It is ETL or U/L here. Those are the guys who really test equipment, sometimes destructively. They probably want a engineer degree tho.

Greg,
I realise that the US is a HUGE country, but why has there never been any sort of standardisation on laws and legislation/regulations, even funding?

It seemed to me, when I was over there in 1995 and I visited quite a few firehouses around the south and up the East Coast, a lot of these places were either really well set up or they were starved for resources, like vehicles, basic equipment, etc.

Is it seriously a thing over there, that before an installation gets energised that no Insulation Resistance testing, a Polarity test or the like ever happens?

It probably gets back to the 9th and 10th amendment to the constitution that says any thing not spelled out in the Constitution is up to the states so every state is it's own little kingdom. In a lot of places that even trickles down to the local government. Florida took all of that away from the locals by having a state wide building code but it is far from universal across the country. We still have independent building departments following that code and a little "interpretation" goes on.
Funding from building departments comes from permit revenue, backed up by local tax money.

We do a visual inspection and that is really about it. The inspector takes a lot on faith but if you don't have faith, based on what you see, that visual inspection can get pretty extensive.

No disrepect, Greg, but I find that quite bizarre that actual electrical testing doesn't figure into an inspection over there.
I mean, that is quite a bit of liability to take on and I'm not sure I'd like that, if I could be sued down the track, for whatever reason, if there was a problem with the installation wiring later on in it's life and this caused either electric shock or a fire, because of that installation.

I've always believed that at the very least, a new installation (or parts thereof) should be subjected to an Insulation Resistance test, and a Polarity test, all done at the main panel, before the circuit(s) is energised.
Then once energised, a Fault-Loop test is performed, to make sure that the Perspective Short Circuit Current is lower than the installed circuit protection.
Also, is there no mandated testing (with a dedicated tester) of GFCI's in the US, when a place is first energised?

Don't get me wrong Greg, I'm not having a go at you because you were the first to mention it here, it just all seems very strange to me.

We probably want to see fire pumps or other life safety equipment run and guys will plug in a receptacle tester now and then but we are not normally getting out a meter and doing impedance testing. We trust the NRTLs to certify equipment, wire panels etc. If they are installed according to manufacturer's instructions they are accepted. On some jobs they will have an engineering company looking over their shoulder and doing some of those tests but that isn't us.

Initial verification and testing is mainly intended to rule out installation issues such as faulty connections or pinched wires, to some extent also manufacturing defects (it's rare but cables sometimes do have non-continuous conductors in the middle of a roll, just to give an example). It's typically performed by the contractor who did the work. Commercial premises are also required to be tested periodically, intervals depending on the expected stress on the electrical system. Harsh environments require testing every 6 months in Austria while offices are only to be tested every five years. Switzerland even includes any homes, which have to be tested every ten years, regardless of occupancy status.

Socket testers show that all conductors are connected to the right terminals but they won't usually flag poor (high-impedance) connections. So most regs require low-ohm testing of any protective or bonding conductors before an installation is energised. In periodic inspections, the Rlow test can usually be substituted by a loop impedance (Zs) test.

Ring final circuits obviously make even more continuity testing necessary.

In many countries, owning a multi-function tester (insulation resistance at 500 VDC, Rlow, Zs, PFC/PSC, RCD test) or individual testers covering all the above, is a requirement for operating as an electrical contractor.

Greg,
Could you please define NRTL?
I've not heard of this term before.

This sort of thing is totally foreign to a guy like me.

NRTL Nationally Recognized Testing Lab. It would be U/L, ETL, TUV etc. They are labs that evaluate and list equipment so we have a standard we can trust. This is an independent test, not self certification like CE. Usually it s destructive testing. They will torture test things until they catch fire and make sure the fire is contained inside the case, grounding holds up, insulation survives and other things along these lines. There is also less destructive testing, like simply making sure the labeling is correct and the load is appropriate for the cord set. One of the guys I heard describing this from the manufacturing side said they kept asking him for more samples because they blew up all he had sent them. This was one of the first listed chlorine generators for a pool and they were making sure it was safe in any failure mode they could think of.

Ragner,
This happens every now and then, I've had a new roll of 6mm² 2 Core and Earth run to an oven or an electrode boiler, it got that bad that I would Megger the cable before it was even pulled through or I would install PVC conduit and pull in single cores.

I do note however that in the UK, the EICR seems to be the port of call for Residential and Commercial periodical electrical testing, what are your or others thoughts on that?

Sorry Greg,
You did actually mention that above.
I would love to work in a place like that.

Hi Simon,
I suppose the real question would be, how much actual wiring experience do you have?

I agree that would be a great job but it might not be as fun as it sounds. I bet there is hours of watching something, writing down readings and waiting for the fire..

Hello,
thanks for the reponses.
I have worked on ships for the most part. Cable pulling, fitting equipment and terminating. No real testing. This course I am currently doing (though on hold for the obvious) is specifically testing. I believe that it would not take long to get into the swing of things after seeing what is expected. I have the hand skills and trying to improve by buying components and fixing them to a board and making/testing the circuits that way. I am not that quick with regs but I would be working as a mate until I get up to speed. My fear is getting lumped with a miserable numpty that wants me to think he is god because he has memorised a few regs and claims to know it all. That can be a real spanner in the works. I have a book coming,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0760353573/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Black & Decker The Complete Guide to Wiring, Updated 7th Edition: Current with 2017-2020 Electrical Codes

looks ok.
I was thinking about trying to contact a local house bashing spark and ask if I could shadow him for free. I thought an extra pair of hands for free may sway it, in exchange for some hands on experience and a question here or there. Though this worries me also, I don't want to be a slave to someone. If I asked this of you, would you expect me to clear away all your rubbish?
My thoughts are that I offer my current experience/tools/time to help complete him a paid job. In exchange I get experience and help with any questions. Though I try to keep the questions to a minimum, makes you look stupid and naieve apparently. Problem is sometimes I don't get how a person may explain something.
Anyway, thats all for now and a lot too
Thanks for the help
Stay safe!
Simon

Hey Simon,
Sorry for such a late response to your reply.

Electricians amongst themselves are an un-known quantity, you could get people like us here that actually care about the work that they do (that is why they're here) or you could end up with some idiot that is a danger to life and property, by the short-cuts they take and what have you.(Don't get me wrong, I have worked with people like this, they are out there)

Pretty much, if you are good on the tools, any decent Electrician should be able to see that, first off, however I will say this, no-one starts off at the top of the company and if you work with a sole-trader, you are going to be the guy that takes out the trash from a job.

I've done this as an Apprentice, everyone has to do this, it's like a rite of passage, those that complain, don't often last that long, just be aware of it.
The best boss/worker you can have, is the one that constantly asks you questions while you work, especially about Regs and the way you do stuff, bearing in mind that they've probably done the same work a thousand times over.

The even better boss/worker is the one that you can ask why this is done like this or so forth, that is real learning + experience.

With respect to that Black & Decker book, I'm not sure that it would be a good way to learn wiring, I could be wrong, but Black & Decker are not intrinsically known for good quality publications.

Take Care, Simon,
If you have any further questions, by all means just ask.

Mike T.