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Posted By: C-H You make a difference! - 01/24/03 06:20 PM
{soapbox mode on}

Have you ever thought of what the world would look like without electricians? I argue that an advanced civilization simply cannot exist without you.

Here's why:

It's a reasonable assumption that society needs to be rather urbanised to be efficient and advanced. To build an urban society you need:

1.) "Advanced" house construction, i.e. something more than huts. This was achieved already in the ancient world.

2.) Food supply. This was a major obstacle to city growth prior to the advent of refridgeration. Ancient Rome had about a million inhabitants, and it was only barely possible to supply it with sufficient amounts of food.

3.) Water supply: Without a water and sewage system even a small city cannot exist. This was one of the real engineering wonders of the ancient world. Both the Greeks and the Romans constructed large water pipelines, some of which still stand today.

4.) Electric power: It offers light, communication and mechanical power, all of which are absolutely essential to any city. The lack of electric power was what for centuries blocked development and the emergence of a modern society. You may argue that steam engines, gas lights and similar makeshift arrangements could have been used instead of electricity. However, this would not have allowed the society to develop very far beyond what it was in the mid 19:th century England. Steam engines are gone: obviously they aren't needed to build an advanced civilization. Water pipes and power lines are here to stay: they are a necessary part of any advanced civilization. An invention that does away with the need for water or electricity is extremely unlikely.

What I'm getting at is that society can survive without cars, airplanes and computers, but not without plumbers and electricians. Alongside with that of farming, these trades are the most fundamental of the society.

I have met researchers that have given several reasons why efficient energy sources in general and electric power in particular is of paramount importance. These range from health effects of small scale burning of fuels in e.g. a fireplace to the freeing of workforce as it the small scale collecting of fire wood is no longer necessary.

The following article from the OECD Observer offers another and rather depressing perspective on electrification:
---
The fact that 1.6 billion people in the world have no electricity and 2.4 billion rely on primitive biomass (wood, agricultural residues, dung) for power may be shocking, but what is worse is that without radical new policies, the figures will be virtually the same 30 years from now. That is one message of the International Energy Agency’s latest World Energy Outlook and “this is not a sustainable future,” says IEA executive director Robert Priddle. Although access to electricity is spreading, it is not growing as fast as the world population, and on current trends 1.4 billion people will still be without electricity in 2030, the World Energy Outlook says. And because electricity is relatively expensive when it does arrive, people do not simply substitute it for biomass sources of energy. Many homes in developing countries use electricity only for light and still use wood and other biomass products for cooking and heating. As a result, on current trends the number of people reliant on biomass is expected to rise to 2.6 billion in the next 30 years, at significant cost to human health and the environment because of smoke pollution and reduction of natural biomass resources.


[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-24-2003).]
Posted By: Redsy Re: You make a difference! - 01/24/03 06:59 PM
Not only that, but we'd all be watching TV in the dark! [Linked Image]
Posted By: Happi_Man Re: You make a difference! - 01/24/03 08:01 PM
not to mention - that's all you'd be watching - a blank screened tv... [Linked Image]
Posted By: cubby964 Re: You make a difference! - 01/24/03 08:50 PM
If we are so important, then why do the computer "Geeks" make the big bucks, and we are a success if we are the low bidder.

(tongue in cheek)!

(or maybe foot in mouth)?
Posted By: electure Re: You make a difference! - 01/25/03 12:15 AM
Maybe...
Human needs water=plumber
Human needs lights=You and me
Human needs comfort=HVAC, and you& me
Human needs drywall... [Linked Image]...S
Posted By: jlhmaint Re: You make a difference! - 01/25/03 01:37 PM
We were just talking about this at the factory i work at yesterday.

its a big circle we all need each other the white collar millionars and upper class might look down on the little people but if it wasn't for the waitress, gas station attendedents, factory workers, electricians, plumbers, construction. those people and everyone would be in a hell of a bind. it takes everyone or nothing would work. and if wasn't for the rich people with investment money you wouldn't have the factories and alot of the buisness that supply work and the things we take for granite
Posted By: iwire Re: You make a difference! - 01/25/03 01:40 PM
Happi_Man

I think Redsy was making a joke [Linked Image]
Posted By: Happi_Man Re: You make a difference! - 01/25/03 02:20 PM
I think he was too - i was just adding my 2 cents [Linked Image]
Posted By: waymag Re: You make a difference! - 01/26/03 04:24 AM
Cubby I agree with you 100 percent. I just cant figure out why the computer geeks for example make WAY more than us. I just do not know of a job where you can lean or do as much as you do in the electrical trade.
Posted By: macwire Re: You make a difference! - 01/26/03 02:26 PM
The "computer geeks" aren't making nearly as much as they used to. With the crash of the dot-coms, many non-dot-com businesses are cutting back their IT (Information Tech) budgets. That means that even at these businesses, geeks are being laid off or forced to take pay cuts. Those who haven't are usually in constant fear for their jobs.

It's also a hundred times harder to find a decent computer geek job than it was even 2 years ago. Again, the dot-com crash put many geeks out of work, and more were pink-slipped as other companies cut back on payrolls. Since there are many out-of-work IT people (geeks) out there now, the geek who does manage to get a new job usually gets paid a LOT less that a few years back. It's an employer's market in IT these days, and will probably remain an employer's market for some years to come.

It is the rare geek who can still command a premium wage, and that geek usually has premium skills to offer (or premium connections..). There is little future for those geeks not already in that exalted position.

That's why I, a computer geek, am changing professions and am enrolling in an electrician apprenticeship come this April. The electrical field to me seems to be more stable, more essential, and more lucrative than IT. Plus it still has geeky elements of playing with doodads and having knowledge that most non-geeks don't have and don't want to have.

MacWire
Posted By: Scott35 Re: You make a difference! - 01/26/03 07:12 PM
Macwire,

I blame the "Cheap-O" Software Companies for a lot of this!
I am referring to the companies that brought in a whole bunch of "Green" Software Nerds, threw them into positions where they had to write stuff as quickly as possible (to get the finished product out the door and on the shelves ASAP) - else they would be replaced; and these poor EEs never really got the structured internship they needed!

All apparent (or hidden) bugs were simply ignored (no Beta testing, or very limited beta tests) with the idea of making patches when the problems arrise (an effective but hinky method of beta testing - using the general public / purchasing customers to find bugs!).

Since the "Mad Dash" for the general public to have a computer has been reduced ("I Need A Computer, NOW!!!"), it's time for the sweethearts in the HR department to downsize!

I really feel bad for many of the IT persons that jumped into the field between 1998 and 2001! They never realized what they had instore, or just how much more training they needed!
Now they are either jobless, or trying desperately to keep from being part of downsizing - all while trying to pay back the tuition fees for learning 1/2 of what they needed!!!
[Linked Image]

One very common example would be people taking the MCSE course.
Not very much mentioned to these people that they need more than just the certificate of lab completion ("Paper MCSE"), so they leave the course with ideas of landing a good IT job and making at least $15.00 / hr to start. Instead they end up formatting hundreds of H.D.D.s each day, or entering data to spreadsheets (if lucky!).

Can you tell this is a touchy subject for me??? [Linked Image]

Anyhow, with your abilities you should be OK in the Electrical Construction field. Again, you will need to start at the bottom and learn as you earn (for at least 5 years), by which time you will be confident enough to tackle stuff on your own!

If your IT training / experience includes anything relavent of Net Geeks (Administrative, A+ / MCSE "Paper and Hardware", CNA / CNE, Cisco geek, etc.), that would be a good benefit for LAN / WAN system design and installations!

You can also help tweek a few workstations, and make some friends! (if you have any hands-on experience with computers, you already know that! friendships increase proportionally as computer errors increase! A very Linear relationship between friend and faults!).

Scott35 S.E.T.
Posted By: harold endean Re: You make a difference! - 01/27/03 01:18 AM
Electricians? I thought that we were "Magicians!" After all just ask all those general contractors who after getting their building out of the ground late, want us to come in on time with our project even though they are 3 weeks late between the excavators and masons. They alawys want the plumbers and us to make up for their lost time. (Not to mention that they think that we are all millionaires. That is why we charge so much and are so independent. Sheesh! Talk about a soap box. At least now I can do something about it. I slow down the jobs when the GC is pushing too hard. I go slower on my inspections. After all I have to protected the electricians whose work I am inspecting.
Posted By: cubby964 Re: You make a difference! - 01/27/03 09:05 PM
I didn't mean to bash the computer guys too hard, after all I minored in computer science. I just think it stinks that if all the computers died life would probably be easier, but, if the electricity goes so goes the lifestyle "everybody" in this nation takes for granted.

BTW: insert politician, CEO, manager, whatever title happens to tick you off in place of "computer geek".

There was a Dot Com company here in Boulder CO, a couple of years ago that ran an ad in the papers looking for High School graduates to start work for them at $50,000 a year, without any other training. Their idea, it turns out, was to train them their way so they had permanent employees. Used to be you needed some training, time, or education to even come close to that. Now you just need to show up in class and they have to give you a diploma, and now the kids are going to expect (feel they're entitled to?) a high paying job

Macwire:
I was raised with the belief that if yu could do something with your hands, you could always make a living. Good luck, and welcome to our little world.
Posted By: macwire Re: You make a difference! - 01/29/03 02:43 PM
cubby964 said:
Quote
There was a Dot Com company here in Boulder CO, a couple of years ago that ran an ad in the papers looking for High School graduates to start work for them at $50,000 a year, without any other training. Their idea, it turns out, was to train them their way so they had permanent employees. Used to be you needed some training, time, or education to even come close to that. Now you just need to show up in class and they have to give you a diploma, and now the kids are going to expect (feel they're entitled to?) a high paying job

As I said before cubby, those days are OVER. They died with most of the dot-coms. Not only is there no longer any easy path to a high-paying job, but you're no longer assured of getting that high-paying job even if you pay the usual dues. At least in the corporate world, anyway.

I'm hoping it's better in the trades. That's part of the reason I'm trying to get into the electrical field, because I've gotten the impression on this board and elsewhere that in the trades hard work is still rewarded, and there's less politics involved.

MacWire
Posted By: cubby964 Re: You make a difference! - 01/29/03 04:19 PM
While I thank goodness those days are over, I still feel that the kids these days feel entitled to something that we had to work our tails off for.
Posted By: macwire Re: You make a difference! - 01/30/03 04:06 PM
They'll learn the hard way that the only thing they're "entitled to" are life and liberty, and even those are conditional. Meanwhile, I too am glad those days are over-I just wish the ending of those days hadn't made things many times harder than they were before the dot-com craze.

MacWire
Posted By: JCooper Re: You make a difference! - 01/30/03 06:10 PM
MacWire I am there with you, mostly. I was working in the security industry playing with all the new stuff that came out, digital video, biometric access control and the like. I had it pretty good at the company and I still have a good reputation in the industry. I was working quite a bit of municipal and government work which means that I got journeyman wages [Linked Image]. About 6 months ago I got a lead on a company looking for somebody to do their IT, I have a good background in computers and LAN/WAN equipment so I figured that it would be a good move forward. WRONG. I ended up taking a SERIOUS pay cut, I forgot to figure in OT and prevailing wage when I asked for my salary, thats right salary, hourly is definetly the way to go. Every day they throw more things on my plate because they firgure that IT isn't that hard and I need more work to do, right..... I am getting my things in order to start my own business doing security work, hopefully I can hook up with my old company to do some sub work until I get my own customer base. My grand plan is to get the company going, get some techs in the field, then work on getting my electricians liscense, I would do it now but the pay cut to be an apprentice would kill me. I really like to do electrical work, and I know enough to be dangerous [Linked Image], all my work meets code and follows 110.12 that I do at home. If anybody has any tips for going out on your own please feel free to e-mail me, any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Jim
Posted By: John Steinke Re: You make a difference! - 01/31/03 12:15 AM
Every time there's a power outage, and the media cries about the hardships that ensue, I imagine an Amish farmer wondering what the big deal is...
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: You make a difference! - 01/31/03 12:38 AM
Wow, I just got a chance to stop in on this thread...

Dot-com days are definitely done, doo-dah, doo-dah.

I used-to-was a computer geek 'till I got canned this past May after a corporate merge/purge (rhymes with dirge).

I have an application in at the IBEW Local. There is plenty of competition to get in, so that right there says a whole lot. I'll be glad to pass the test and not have to wait years on a list.

(Stop snickering, will ya!? I already know about the left-handed 90s and the upside-down 3-way switches, etc.)

Macwire, Scott35, et al, I'm with you all the way.

Speaking of the test, I recall in high school being told that Algebra was to prepare us for "higher math." In this case, I think it's hire math [Linked Image]
Posted By: Scott35 Re: You make a difference! - 01/31/03 04:54 AM
Thinkgood:

Quote

Speaking of the test, I recall in high school being told that Algebra
was to prepare us for "higher math." In this case, I think it's hire
math

LOL!!!

I was blown away when prep'ing for the EIT - all the Algebra and Calculus!
Stuff I left behind when leaving School behind [Linked Image]

In simpler words, stumbled through review books and attend refresher classes!

Scott35 S.E.T.
Posted By: BuggabooBren Re: You make a difference! - 02/02/03 03:50 AM
From an 'outsider's' perspective, electricians ARE magicians although there must be great job satisfaction as has been shown here, especially when a challenge is met or an installation or repair is done in top-notch form and you know that the service will serve the user correctly and safely. I have a good deal of respect for those who embody both expertise and integrity while they challenge themselves and (hopefully) enjoy their vocation.

I'm going to ask a local electrician to help me and my den of Cub Scouts (wolf level) to provide a small PA system to use at the Pack meetings so the boys can get a glimpse of said job satisfaction and maybe it'll 'spark' some interest in their career dreams and hopes.

I don't feel the same way about plumbers... as my dad responded when I commented that there's no way on earth I'd consider being a plumber: "Well, you know 'stuff' flows downhill, payday's on Thursday and you don't bite your fingernails." Yeah, he's warped.
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: You make a difference! - 02/02/03 04:07 AM
Plumbers are a nesecessary evil.I get a lot of giggles and smirks because we do both. Without good plumbing installations we would be using the old outhouse!
Posted By: BuggabooBren Re: You make a difference! - 02/02/03 04:23 AM
ga.sparky, I may have left out an important statement: I am so thankful that plumbers exist! I have a distinct aversion to the type of work they do, but I'm sure glad that someone is willing to do it because outhouses figure prominently in my aversion as well. I recall when my dad was in bible college and preaching at a multitude of small country churches there was one that had no indoor plumbing and warned of the copperhead snakes since it was dark in there... yeesh!
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: You make a difference! - 02/02/03 04:48 AM
Bren, the house I grew up in had no bathroom in it until I was about 13. It was still a common thing here at that time. So i guess I have a special appreciation for all modern amenities because I grew up poor.One of my builder friends put in a bathroom for his parents when he came back from vietnam in 72.
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