Do any of you have the propblem of carpenters doing wiring in mainly remodels. They just don't call the inspector. They do not need a carpenter's license so can't threaten to have their licence revoked. But you have to have an Electrical license to do any electrical work. What did your municipality do about this . Any ideas!

Master44,
I've lost count of the times, when I have turned up to a job, to find that all of the wiring is botched, and no-one wants to take the blame, in this situation, I would instantly call an Electrical Inspector, they have amazing powers of finding answers over here in NZ!.
Most of our Inspectors, are still employed by the PoCo, and the threat of refusal of supply, often works wonders.
A few times, I have come across a faulty installation after all of the walls have been lined and covered with expensive wall-paper, too, this doesn't tend to go down too well, when you try tell the home-owners that you may need to cut some parts of the walls,
to find the wires!.

Master,

I see it a lot. Especially during Kitchen, Basement, and Apartment remodel jobs. Many times the Owner does not really want everything done on the up and up and inspected because that might mean paying higher taxes, or they think they are saving money. But they don't really understand what they are getting from these guys. Other times they do think that it was done by an Electrician because the guy had a truck and everything (??)

Our Dept. of Consumer Affairs encourages everyone to report unlicensed work being done and they do give out Fines when people are caught.

Bill

we have an interesting double standard here in Vermont.

Licensed electricains must play the game, and no one else really needs to....

there exists no license requirements for single family here, the jist of the law meant to exclude a home owner.

but our state laws include loopholes..... so many times have 'GC's , carpenters and the like here wiried residences, assumably under the employ of the home owner.

last fall i had a carpenter 'trim out', eventually calling me because he could not figure a 3W out.

you get the pix

1/2 my biz is untangling thier boo-boos

i've asked the state about this many times, recently our head inspector.

but they are no help, and hide behind the very loopholes that are burning down my state, while adding NEC addendums they will never be able to enforce in single family dwellings.

so i don't bother with the state on this anymore.

WTF good are they?


I'm left to simply protect my own liability as a biz-man and state (via reg letter) that my co. bears no responsibility for the involvement of other trades.

Maybe telling the carpenters some Bull Poo-Poo stories about all the houses you have framed, and will be framing in the near future, might have some kind of an impact to these people!

Stir in some extra Baloney about how you get paid tons of bucks - by wealthy clients - to do this; plus add a pinch of how everything is done without a permit or License; and I would bet this gets some reactions!!!

Now YOU will be hearing "Oh, now you just can't be doing this stuff!!!" and end up sending these jokers running away from any hints of messing with Electrical work - in search of these "phantom clients" with unlimited funds for construction work!!!

Something has gotta work to eliminate this nonesense! Reality and Logical thinking doesn't work, threats don't work, all the talking in the world doesn't seem to work; so it's time to try another method of attack - the "Greed factor" and "Jealousy factor" may just work!!!

Only problems I can see would be if someone can get in trouble for B.S.-ing these clowns about fictional scenarios, or if these jokers stumble across more clients while searching for the "Holy Grail Construction Account" clients!

Scott35 S.E.T.

Master44:
I have to agree with Bill Addiss for the most part. We have the same situation here in NJ, as we have HIGH property taxes. Some homeowners are afraid of the Tax Man, and avoid Town Hall, and the Permit fees and inspections.
There are some remodelers (kitchen/bath) that "include" the electrical work, and do it themselves, qualified or not.
THe town I work PT in as an AHJ imposes $500.00 fines on anyone caught doing work without a permit, (Electrical/Plumbing/Building, etc)

The few EC's who get caught get there buns to the Municipal Building real quick!
John

It's kind of funny. Before I got my EC license, I didn't have a problem doing side work. But now, I really hate others doing the same. That said, I knew what I was doing and the guys I have a problem with are "handy" men who think they can do anything, but truthfully they don't do anything really good. I've thought about trying to get some to stop, by reporting them when I see them advertise for electrical work and I know they aren't licensed. It's one thing to change a mushroom light out(although they can screw that up too). It's another thing to wire a basement and add a 100 amp sub panel using #8 THHN with no conduit and only 3 conductors.(true story)

[This message has been edited by Electric Eagle (edited 01-24-2003).]

I have found that it all depends on the AHJ and the District attourneys. In places that only want a permit fee, it's not worth the time or phone call to report them. In juridictions that will ENFORCE the laws with heavy fines and jail time, it is worth the call.
It's really quite intresting to here some of those fly by nites telling each other what places to avoid.
By the way, just had a so called GC ask me to hook up the panel for a house. He claims that all the material is there, all the circuits are run and he only needs a licensed electrician to hook up the panel so that the inspector will pass the house.
He also told me what he wants to pay and no more.
I hope he finds a sucker - I'll guarentee he will not like my price.

PT Barnum's old addage come to mind nesparky.

Scott,
do U suppose there is a carpenters forum with a similar B***h ?

Steve (sparky)

[QUOTE}
Scott,
do U suppose there is a carpenters forum with a similar B***h ?
[/QUOTE]

LOL!!!
No doubt about that at all!!!

Scott35 S.E.T.

John,

I don't like unlicesned people doing electrical work anymore than the rest of the contractors. I called the state on one person I found doing electrical work, but the didn't think that there was anything that they could do. NOW in NJ it is a criminal offense in the fourth degree to practice electrical work without a licesense. However I am still not sure how helpful the State board of examiners will be. I have had some success with the local electrical contractors assoc. They are going after these unlicensed people with a passion.

I was rewiring a old house for a customer and was done sent the bill, even cust hime a break on hourly rate. He called and said he was getting another elctrician. So I had it inspected then all of a sudden he told me to go ahead and finish it. He had built a garage and said the other electrician wired it. I checked and no permit had been pulled on it. Come to find out the carpenter who built the garage rewired it. He was going to do the house to I think but when I got it inspected he knew he could not call get a final inspection. That's why he suddenly had me finish the job.
Real flustrating when you go to all the trouble of passing the BLock test and these bozzo's are making money on something they have no license for. I am going to report him after my final and ask the city atorney to prosecute.

I had a couple of clowns ask for a bid on a basement remodel. They told me they could do it themselves for a fraction of my bid. When I asked how, they said they didn't need the sub-panel and they would use the existing circuit (yes "circuit") for the whole basement. Ran away from that one!

I suppose I should have turned them in too.

I guess I'm lucky. Our AHJ's are not bashfull about bringing bad licensed contractors in to sit in front of the board, and even happy (it seems) to prosecute unlicensed parties doing electrical work.

Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 01-27-2003).]