Anyone have any experience in bidding partial burnt out houses? Do you usually bid these the same as you do regular houses with a little extra?? Thanks Steve....

T&M.
There are too many things that can(will)show up during the demo and reconstruction such as removing wiring to allow for stud or wall replacment and then reinstalling it.Wiring will get damaged during demo.You will also spend alot of time tracing out the circuits to make sure that they have a feed that you wouldn't have to do in new construction.

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 01-21-2003).]

sparkync...for the most part of it.the old walls and ceiling will be ripped out anyhow do to the smoke damage to the insulation.i would look at it as wiring the whole house from scratch.now you my be able to use the existing service and panel, but that depends on where the fire started and the size of the service /panel.

As long as it isn't an FP panel....

T&M IS THE PREFERRED WAY. DON'T START WORK UNTIL AN ADJUSTER HAS APPROVED YOU'RE PROPOSAL. BEWARE OF HIDDEN DAMAGE!!!

Thanks for the input. I just got back from checking the job, and I think I'll probably bid it like a new house, PLUS. It is a story and half type house with a lot of extra's. House panel breakers have melted down, lot of unseens and even has extra baseboard heat in addition to the gas heat pack outside. I'm going to recommend doing away with the baseboard heat and having the outside unit sized right to supply the house without it. It only has a 150 amp. service which I'm going to recommend changing to 200 amps. Has Cathedral ceiling with fan and 6 outside flood lights, and bunches more of unseens, plus it's 30 mile drive one way to job. Going to have to put in a lot of PLUS's
on this bid Thanks again for the input.. Steve

Plus put some in for the heebeejeebie factor too. Nothing gives me the creeps more than a burnt out house.
TW

sparkync, "t & m" is really the only way you can make anything on these jobs. i do a lot of this stuff for a couple of "entrepanuers", (sorry, cant spell the word) who make their living "rehabing" and doing insurance work. they have asked me on several occasions why i dont just give them a set price, (depending on the size of the structure), and i continually refuse because of the many, many variables involved.
be sure to figure on plenty of demo time for yourself, too.....dont rely on others to get everything in shape according to your schedule....>wink<

your idea of using your new construction pricing isnt a bad idea....but be very flexible

have a SAFE day!


gramps

Insurance jobs scare me. Bid cautiously and push for T&M or maybe T&M not to exceed a certain figure.

SparkyNC:
Do you have an AHJ (Inspector) in the area???
Usually, MOST OF THE TIME here in NJ, if the fire was "major" (most of the time) the whole house MUST be rewired. NO re-use of existing, due to obvious or possible heat & water damage. You should talk to the AHJ before you commit to the job, unless you see a total rewire. As to pricing, T&M is the best, but if you have to give a number, don'yt overlook the demo, rip-out, etc.
John

spyder, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be asking for trouble?

If one would make the "not-to-exceed" value equal to the "bid price", then go with a bid.

Seems to me, you're putting a "ceiling" price on something, but no "bottom" price, atleast with a bid, there is only one price.

Make sense?

Or am I just missing soemthing fundamental again?

My point: about the not to "exceed" price gives them a high ballpark figure. They are happy because they have a number. I see your point about it not being excatly fundamental.

Virgil,

In my former life of a facility manager I did a lot of NTE. That would give you a budget figure to go with, and then if the price came in lower you looked good. But then again I also did job walks and there were far fewer questions than what NC is looking at.

It seems to me that you would bid the job as a complete new re-wire with some cost in for removing the old stuff. Would you accept the liability of leaving in some of the old wiring?

Lawyer: Sparkync, why did my clients house burn down again when our experts have found that there was obiously had some heat stress on this wire.

Sparkync: Looked good to me.

Judge: Judgement for the plantiff.

Unfortunately that is how it is today.

Scot

Hmmmm......

Fire in kitchen of 5000sq.ft 1 story.Rewire whole house.Sounds lucrative but Ins.Co.aint gonna go for it.

Thanks again for the input.. Had to give the bid tonight though If prices around here were as good as some of you all's places I might could have bid higher, but I'm a little "bid scared". I'm bidding this burnt out cheaper than Virgil did his new house kinda scary... but I gotta put food on the table and I figure I'll make better than I would at "Burger King" or "MacDonalds". I put the bid in at $8500.00 I know.......to cheap.. but I gotta get my foot in the door with this contractor if possible, he does high volume of work. $$$$$'s down the road. And I wish I had time to ask the inspectors, but again I'm pushed to make a decision. Decisions, Decisions, way of life Thanks.... Steve.. Hope if I get the job, I don't get to many surprises. If I do hope I learn enough to make up on the next one

Sparkync Gramps has this correct "T&M and Don't depend." With fires, damage can jump rooms or floors.
LK

SparkyNC:
1st, Good Luck
Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
I know 1st hand what yaou mean about putting food on the table. Yeah, it was a while ago, but it's something you don't forget.

If it gets you connected with a GC, then it may be worth it.

Good Luck
John

sparkync,

Still don't have any papers signed on that one, so I may not have it.

The going rate for other GCs is about 1/3 to 1/2 of what I bid on that one job.

I've done 3000 sq ft houses with finished basements and including phone and tv for less than $6000 before.

Not bragging.

Besides, the one good month I had last year was for the first Greenbrier cottage I wired.

Most of the money went to my sub and to my supplier. I ended up with about $2K left over.

My net profit for the year (including my pay) was less than $12K, so don't go wishing you were in my shoes!

Seriously considering closing shop. Joe Musser quit his biz and is now working for the only competition at the Greenbrier for $12 per hour. Yes, he's a master and contractor. Not a typo. $12 per hour. I pay my no-experience helper $10 and most of you think it's too low.

Got turned down on a truck loan, so I don't have much faith in my business any more. My truck won't pass inspection without serious bodywork and a new windshield and I've got to the end of the month to repair or replace the truck.

Still don't have my helper legal. Don't have the $1600 for a wage bond and I have to have that before I can pay comp, withholdings, SSI, etc.

My poor helper has had to listen to me b*tch all day long too.

It seems pretty futile now. Sorry to rant again.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 01-22-2003).]

sparky66wv.......dont give it up yet... .....maybe branch out a little....if it gets really bad down there...bring your truck and helper to columbus....i got more work than i can handle for the next few months.... ......kiss momma "goodbye" for 60-90 days...and come help me.....i got 2 "prevailing wage" jobs that i need a journeyman on, that i cant start....because of manpower.....

think about it
gramps

sparky66wv:

I hear you...

You're considering getting out and I'm trying to get in.

I was in the web development area and have been out of work since May. (With a wife and two toddlers plus a new mortgage. Boy, was I glad to hear that the Federal benefits were extended or I'd really be in trouble!)

I have a strong interest in the trade, and the local Sunday paper want-ads here (Northern NJ) have at least 4 or 5 ads for experienced electricians.

The ones I've spoken with are offering $8-$10/hour for an inexperienced helper (and I understand...they would have to slow down to train me, etc.)

The union apprenticeship program takes a while to get in, and I'm told the list is long. (The wait is worth it, however.)

So, Gramps sounds like he has an offer worth considering very seriously. I imagine it would be uncomfortable to pick up and leave for a while, but if you are not tied down to family, it sure would be worth it.

Maybe you can convert your truck's engine into a generator?

NOTE: I just saw Mr. Tedesco's message relative to deletion of posts that are not on topic. I'll send this one via private e-mail. The board doesn't allow me to delete the post.

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 01-22-2003).]

Fire job:True Story.
I did a complete rewire on a fire job. About 2 weeks after the job was finished I get a phone call from the GC,Bob. The phone call went like this.

Arthur:Hello
Bob:Hi,it Bobby.
Arthur:Hey Bob how it,s going.
Bob:Not good.
Arthur:Bob What wrong?
Bob:The house you just finished burnt to the ground yesterday.
Arthur:Bob what the hell happen, anybody hurt.

Then a looooong pause.

Bob:The homeowner left his electric blanket on,with a blanket over it,it caught the bed on fire. There was no one home, so it burnt to the ground.
Arthur:Bob you as*hole why didn't you tell that in first place.
Bob:Just wanted to see you sweat.
Arthur:Well hope you know it's going to cost you twice as much to do the job again.

Ahhh....fire jobs.....no thanks. One thing to watch out for though...the refrigerator.

To make a long story short, we did a fire job. Entire house cleaned out except for fully-stocked-with-meat fridege. Power was cut to house immediately after fire. House sits for 8 months before rebuild (all summer long-you know where this is going.)

The day we start the rewire they decide to clean out the fridge. GC removes contents of fridge (I don't know how!), runs to window over the dumpster, throws box filled with putrid liquified meat, misses the dumpster, and contents splatter all over the side of the house.

The smell? Words can't describe it. I was standing 5 feet away when it happened. I ended up crawling through a burnt out hole in the back of the house onto the roof to escape. My boss was on the front lawn ready to pass out.

Gramps, thanks for the kind offer. I'll consider it if things don't look up here in a week or two. Does Ohio resiprocate with WV as far as licensing?

CT, Ewwwww!

sparky,
i'll make the call today and find out for sure.....but i think they do, along with kentucky and pa., and maybe mich.
i'll post back as soon as i get the details

one of the jobs....the one i could REALLY use the help on....is a large combo warehouse and office complex, with six roof-top a.c. units, along with 15,000 ft. of EMT and MC cable inside, troffer lighting, 277 v. high-bays, etc. sound like something you could get into?....july 1 is the comp. date that the GC is shooting for....GC is Adena Corp. from s.e. ohio..(reynoldsburg, i think, is their home office). jobsite location is fairfield county, (s.e. of columbus about 25 miles)

i'll post back when i find out about the licensing .....


gramps

Rebuilt a partially burned garage, owners were reimbursed by insurance for all contents and didn't want to mess with the smoke smell, so we were allowed to keep anything we wanted out of it. Ended up with lots of hand tools, cords (only smoke damage), even two pairs of snow shoes. Everything washed up with a little soap and elbow grease, and two years later you hardly notice the smell anymore.

Also did a restaurant to replace one that burned in the kitchen. Had wood framed flat roof. Amazing that the structural guys said that since the charcoal on the rafters was less than 1/4 inch deep they did not need to be replaced.