ECN Forum
Posted By: wewire2 Are plastic wire spools getting flimsier or - 03/05/13 02:59 AM
is it just my imagination? Seems like they break just setting them in the back or the truck. Anyway..I wish the
days of those durable tin spools would return.
Yup the wire is more expensive and the spool is cheaper. You surely can't drop one. I had one bounce down a step ladder and by the time it got to the floor it rat nested.
Yep, and then you end up cutting off the top layer of wire that got
damaged. We have to handle wire with care but those things are made to
break. I'm gonna write a letter! Haha! There oughta be a law!
Stands to reason they are just like anything else. The less they put into a product, the bigger the profit margin. Like cars for example. There are many 60's and 70's models on the road today then late 70's & 80 models. Light fixtures are the same. They seem to get flimsier year by the year
At the risk of making a commercial interruption ...

The ECN store carries Rack-A-teers, who sell a variety of clever gizmos for dealing with fragile wire spools.
The plastic spools of the past were pretty rugged.

On one spool of #12 I bought this year, the plastic broke when I was cutting the outside wrapper off.


Still, any old spool is a vast improvement over the cardboard cartoned TW and THW wire of the 60s and 70s.


[Linked Image from bluelink.ptsupply.com]



Im not that "seasoned" of a sparkie however, I have come across a couple of the those cardboard boxes of wire and used them... I'll pass on them.

For a half cent, the spool makers can make a lot more durable spool and no one would grip paying that half cent more
Another trip down memory lane with the cardboard box!!

Those were the days! Heck, I thought the tin spools were the greatest thing, then along came plastic ones. The current ones are like the new soda cans, or the 16+/- oz plastic water bottles.

Less is more$$$ for some.
While we're on this subject, it seems as if the wire insulation is getting flakier as well. I did a job recently where the customer supplied his own THHN that I think he bought from a big box store. It was #12 solid. When we were done, we ended up having two shorts. In both instances, the insulation had taken the slightest little nick and gave out. I sure remember it being a lot more durable, largely due to the thicker nylon outer covering. It seems like that is almost non-existent now.

I don't even want to talk about how flimsy the jacket has become on Romex cable.
Lowes and Home Depot both dictate prices to suppliers.

Consequently even the biggest NEMA players re-craft their gear towards 'value engineering' so as to not lose that end of the market to their competitors.

Without naming names:

You'll find slightly thinner bussing, panel can metal, and all around bare bones packages in the big box stores.

Some attempt to recoup margins will be made in the nickel and dime items: grounding rails, lugs, AFCIs, GFCIs (C/Bs) and such.

======

I expect further scandals as counterfeit branded NEMA goods pop up.

Heck, it now turns out that you can't even trust the fish you buy to be correctly labeled.

(In Red China the locals so mistrust their own manufactures that they'll pay a hefty premium to get Made in USA.)


Talk about memory lane, when TW was just about over and THHN was the new wire on the block, 1 supply house I knew put all of it's TW wire on sale to get rid of it. My boss (who could never pass up a bargain", bought all the TW that they had. It was about 100 boxes. There were some #14 and #12 ga wire but most was #10 ga and I believe he bought that back in the 80's. I bet he still has some. I had to move those boxes more times than I want to remember.
Following Reno's advice, I checked
out Rack-a-Teer's site and found these.
http://www.rack-a-tiers.com/product/14/Reel-End-Spool-Repair
wewire, thanks for the link. Those look like a great way to solve the problem...and they're available at the ECN Store too!

Talking about memory lane, when landed my first job with an EC, the very first 2 weeks I spent alone untangling a mountain of boxed TW that the crew had grabbed the wrong end to pull. If you didn't pull from the center, it ended up with a rat's nest within a few feet.

I was hungry to learn, and about the only thing I learned from that chore was my colors, and to always pull from the center rolleyes



Speaking of boxed TW, On direct orders from the wife I just
sent 2 boxes to the local building materials resale charity
along with other items that have been sitting in my shop for
ages. I always thought it was #10 or 12 but upon inspection it turned out to
be #14. Forgot about that amazingly THICK insulation!
The last TW I saw -- installed, it was -- was so thick I thought I was looking at off color #10 THHN.

Nope.

Just Orange #12 TW.

That panel must be sixty-years old, by now.
You still get H07V wire (single PVC isolated conduit singles) either in cardboard boxes or just in shrinkwrap here. If the boxes fall apart, God help you!
Only last week I untangled a huge rats nest of blue 1.5 mm2 wire (the two ends had gotten tangled during the pull).

Cords and cables are usually sold shrinkwrapped (50 and 100 m rolls) or on heavy wooden spools (500 m).
Talk about the old TW wire. Many years ago when I was an apprentice, I had to do a very long underground pull with about 8-12 #10 TW wires. My old boss was determined to use that old wire. Well, I almost lost the family jewels trying to pull that crap through a 1" PVC pipe. ( I am trying to remember cause this happened in the '80s.)
Did you have plenty of "soap"? I notice when pulling cat 5 and coax with a similar PVC jacket that the "77" really makes a huge difference. Compared to that the nylon jacket on THHN is real easy to pull.

I have found that if you use your vacuum to suck some lube through the pipe from both ends before you start helps a lot.
You usually jam at the turn up it seems, so sucking some lube in from the far end is handy.
Greg,

I think we went through a gallon or two of lube. However pulling almost a dozen #10 ga wire. (Which I forgot to mention was solid, not stranded)through the pipe was pretty tough. smile We were at a beach and we were wiring up light poles for the swim lanes. We also had to be very careful, because we were working over water. One slip and you dropped your pliers down into the lake.
On the subject of lube, the guy who came up with the 'SimPull' coating hit a real homerun.

Guys over here love the parallel reels, the made-up pull head, the ease of the pull. Multi solid color insulation. Heck, they even had 750KCMil Green. Really looks impressive when neatly installed in cable tray.

Gave me thoughts of getting my tools out!!
Harold:
BTW, I personally hate solid wire, with any insulation.
In the pool Greg? At least you have a chance to retrieve them. Just a couple weeks ago, I lost one of my screwdrivers in the salt water of the narrows. A few years ago hand my tool pouch out of the boat and it bumped the rail and I lost several tools out of my pouch. Oui vey!
I have a big magnet (voice coil magnet from a 14" disk drive) that is about the size of a brick with a round bite out of it. I have used that a number of times to retrieve things from the drink.
A little spritz of WD40 and they are good as new.
Greg:
I guess you retrieve quickly. The tools that were in the flood were toast after three days.

Off subject but yesterday the dredgers working to clear the channels in Barnegat Bay pulled in a 1990 Mercedes E that,s been under for 4 months. Not enough WD-40 to clean that baby!!
I keep one of those magnets on the boat and another in the garage. I do get stuff back as fast as I can. Otherwise you might as well just let the sea have it.

One thing you have to keep in mind is it isn't really the water that hurts things, it is the air. If you are not prepared to deal with it, you are better off leaving something in the water until you have your WD40 or whatever in hand.
Typically I flush it immediately with fresh water and then hit it with a massive dose of WD40. When I found the lower unit in my boat full of salt water, I immediately filled it with WD turned it over, drained, repeated WD and then filled it with motor oil because that was what I had handy.
When I finally got a chance to take it apart, everything was OK.
Greg...

WD40 = Water Dispersant (attempt) 40 was originaly, originaly, blended out of fish oils to solve water intrusion into the cable harness couplings to Atlas missiles at Cape Canaveral which was causing so many of the rocket's mis-fires.

Rustoleum also has a fish oil base. It was originaly, originaly, blended to fight rust at sea.

Fish have been fighting back the sea for 500,000,000 years, so they may have something going.

Chloride ions act as a catalyst for rust. So, be sure to flush the heck out of any item that's been exposed to salts. That may mean road salt, for you electricians out East.

You guys hit the nail on the head... Recent plastic spools SUCK! About a year ago I found METAL spools buried in my supply houses stock of 80's or 90's THHN that had new stock continuously getting stacked on it (General Cable/Cornish and Guardian) and I bought every last roll laugh
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