I'm starting a project next tuesday. Rewiring an old k&t house. It is a 2 story brick, approximately 4k sq ft. Basically changing out existing stuff, not too many upgrades. They are also doing a lot of replumbing and having a completely new hvac system installed. I've never tackled a project this size, or with this much lathe and plaster. It is completely time and materials with a high end estimate.

The attic is open and it is on a full basement. Actually the house is 3 stories with this figured in. What is the best way to take on this thing and do it most efficiently. I did inform the homeowner that some demo would be necessary. A good news is that hopefully I can get in before the hvac guys and won't have to work around their pipes the whole time.

The last one I did I was glad the plumber was in first they cut a lot of access's that I utilized.

Work it just like eating an elephant: one bite at a time. That job will take a while, but with patience it can be done. Sometimes the best way to route wires is not the most direct route, so figure in some extra romex. I did a 2 story with a basement, and the only way to run the 3 conductor for the stairwell was down from the switch to an ac chase, up into the attic, then back down into the upstairs switch, almost 100 extra feet of wire to avoid a massive amount of demo in the center of the house. Point is it can be done, take your time and look at all your routing options before settling on a path.

Gee, the tool merchants drool over jobs like this! Your choice is between fussing & cussing every inch of the way - or buying lots of new toys!

Get the best Rotozip you can find, and fit it with solid carbide milling cutters. Might get a cordless one too, for the odd job off in a dark corner. Finally, there is a 'sled' that lets you use the rotozip like a saber saw. There's no better way to cut plaster & lath.

Belay that. There IS a better way - and the tools are finally making their way over from Europe. "Flex" is one maker of a tool that can be best described as a circular saw with two blades spaces about 3/4" apart. Just what you want for cutting in your chases in the walls.

However you do it, you'll want to invest in BOTH a drywall-specific vacuum (with HEPA filter, maybe $150) AND an air cleaner (fan with a filter to catch airborn dust).

I can't see doing a 'complete rewire' without your having to add several new circuits, etc.

For making simple holes there's nothing that beats an impact driver. Milwaukee even makes a big one (7/16" hex collet) for driving the selfeed bits through lumber.

The multi-master is divine for the occasional slot or rectangular hole in plaster & lath.

Another thing I would do is to try and plan ahead. If you are going to rewire the kitchen this month and a room on the second floor next month, maybe you can pull some extra wires to be used in the future. That would also go for the low voltage and telco wires.

I bet you will find it easier if you have a sub panel on the upper floor serving the attic to keep your branch circuits shorter. Then you are only running a feeder top to bottom.
Another handy fishing tool is a magnet on a piece of 10ga solid wire. You can bend that around corners to snag the chain you drop down from above in a wall. About 3 feet of steel bead chain on the end of nylon string works well for this. Use that to pull down a more sturdy cord to pull the cable in.
I use an old rare earth magnet from a disk drive.

Those HD magnets are STRONG!! I have a few that secure various things to my metal storage cabinet in the garage!! Never thought of your idea Greg. You ever think of sending it in to 'Ideas that work' at EC mag?

Back in the days, I use a wad of string down, and a short piece of fish tape & wasted a lot of time ccasionally.

BTW, did you think of making a 'small' pilot hole to assist in locating your missing NMC?

A quarter inch fish tape gives a little more control and strength if you need to push up, or through insulation.

A fine chain is good for dropping down a wall and it can be fished out a small hole at the bottom with a wire.

A flex bit can save time, but it can also pop out of a wall in a less than desirable place.

Reno, I am probably in the middle on the tools. I like to have the right tools for the job but I am not a tool magnet, requiring the latest and the greatest. That being said, I did look at the Flex cutter. That is a good looking tool, but it should be for $600.

(http://www.flexnorthamerica.com/docs/FLEX%202011%20Catalog.pdf)

I will get the carbide bit for the rotozip and probably a carbide hole saw. Hmmm....maybe upgrade to a battery rotozip.... I actually had the dewalt until it was stolen. I miss that thing.

Where do you get the magents? That is a good idea. I can't imagine there being any insulation in the walls. That would work well.

They're known as NIB and can be found endlessly on eBay.

Otherwise, bust open an older disk drive that is junk to you. The NIB is used on the swing arm as a DC-Stepper.

They're best used as stud finders. If tin you're golden, always.

If wood then you're going for the nails/screws. I've found manny an install that skips studs like crazy.... to include exterior insulation!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9movZLFc_Zk

There are a host of videos at the above link.

I save the magnets from old disk drives. I seem to have quite a collection. I would mail you one but I think it is illegal to do that.

Maybe I could do it if I put a "keeper" on it but the bare magnet in an envelope would jam the mail sorter.

Greg...

They are shipped inside a Faraday Cage...

i.e. inside a metal container.

All of mine came that way.

Bosch has a few models too... but they aren't really cheaper. Basically there are two categories of those tools: less than $150 and won't work and $500+ and works like a charm. However, I can only see a reason to use this beast if you have solid plastered brick walls - but in US construction even exterior brick walls were commonly firred out with up to 2x4s, so you can fish wires. I think mainly rural houses older than about 1880 tend to have solid plastered walls. If you do have them, the cutter is a saving grace though. It works much faster and the channels are far more precise rather than jagged and bigger than necessary. If you do lots of work in walls like those, you might want to invest in a rotary hammer with a flat chisel bit, in order to chip out the leftover brick and plaster between the two cuts and for making box openings.

If dust is not an issue, you can use an angle grinder too and run it twice... that's what I did after trying one of the cheap cutters (thankfully I didn't buy one, only borrowed, it was so weak it kept stalling even in soft brick).

There's a Wodack plaster groover for sale on eBay for $89.00. It looks a little beat up, but those things go for about $1200.00 new.

Plaster Groover

One job back in 98/99 was plaster & red clay block. We used an air chisel & Craftsman compressor. No problem, but it was messy!! (Mess was no issue; vacant 15 story apt bldg, full gut)

Heck, $ 89 tool, I would jump, as long as it worked.

Greg,


The magnet idea is great as long as it isn't metal studs. I used the jack chain and string, fish tape, I have even used my ruler if the hole is big enough, with a 30' ruler, you get some great control over moving it down inside the wall.

Texas, I did not mention Bosch because .... Bosch North America has made a deliberate decision to NOT import these tools for this market.

Found that out when I tried to buy one ...

Hotline ... what these tools do is make a pair of saw cuts about an inch apart. You still need to chip out whatever is between the slits, though a lot of the material just falls away.

Here's what I use for fishing down walls, when I can do so.



A piece of #10 jackchain .... with a 4lb lead fishing weight attached.

Gravity is a wonderful thing.

What a fishing weight! I'd hate to see the hook .... wait, you don't need a hook, just bonk the fish in the head with it!

Might consider giving it a nice coat of gold paint, for that "Ft. Knox" style

That's a standard issue item for rock cod fishing out here, it will sit at the bottom of a string of 5-15 baited hooks or lures and be dropped down 300-1000 feet. There were occasions when you could limit out on your first drop, but not any more. Without that much weight you'd need a few thousand feet of line to get down to the bottom with the current.

Not sure about gold paint, but a couple of glow sticks usually improved the catch.

The cool part is that you only need to lift the string up a couple hundred feet before their bladders inflate from the lighter pressure and the whole string of fish floats to the surface......

Oops... didn't know about Bosch! Sorry!

This tool is basically a dual-blade circular saw with diamond blades that will cut plaster, stucco, brick and to some extent concrete. Most ECs then use a Hilti or other electric rotary hammer to chip out everything else. To some extent you can also use the plaster groover to cut in boxes, at least for the vertical cuts on a single gang or all cuts for larger boxes. For wall light boxes you could switch to core drilling... on the other hand a core drilling bit that size would most likely be impossible to use free-hand. In countries that use 60mm round switch boxes, 83mm diamond tipped core drilling bits are fairly common for installing boxes, they speed up the process considerably and reduce damage to the wall - just chiseling will give rather jagged holes and in old buildings might cause a LOT of plaster to fall. Here in Vienna, pre-WWI plaster usually didn't have any lime or cement content at all, it only consists of mud (clay/adobe), often with a cement based finish coat. That stuff chips off like crazy!

Oh, and anyway, try to convince the home owner, that plaster repair isn't black magic, at least if they're DIY types! Finding a good plasterer in the US might be a little hard...

That is certainly true in SW Florida. We have 2 generations of people who are convinced "texture gun", knock down or skip trowel is OK so nobody knows how to make anything smooth.
When you find a guy who can patch and make it disappear, you are on a waiting list, even now with construction flat.

Last comm job that the owner wanted 'real plaster', they went & got a guy out of retirement. No joke, paid him very, very well, had a driver pick him up & take him home, and two (2) laborers to work with him.

Old world (Italian) craftsman!!

Did the fishing from the attic today. I made a weight with the unthreaded part of a long 1/2" bolt. I tapered the ends, drilled a hole and soldered in the jack chain. It worked beautifully. I was able to pull out the insulator and drop it all the way to the box. Much nicer than fish tape. Thanks for the good idea, it worked like a charm.