I have recently moved to Missouri, where it seems the DMV has 'gone private.' That is, private entrepraneurs open DMV office, performing the various DMV functions.
One effect of this seems to be better locations for DMV offices; any retail space will do. Another is the fact -sice you can go to any office- that the shabby operations feel the loss in their pocketbooks.
While one might worry about corruption, etc ... the government offices filled with civil service staff have a far from saintly record.

I wonder if we could do that with building inspections? That is, let the contractor call the office of his choice; if one office can't inspect until next week, maybe another can. Etc.
Any thoughts?

I think that they used to do something like this in New Jersey back in the 1950's. My father was building our house back then, and I remember seeing an electrical inspection sticker from then on the circuit breaker panel with the name of an inspector based out of Philadelphia PA on it. Seemed that any (presumingly licensed) electrical inspector was considered valid for this. Today the town has an electrical inspector who does all inspections.

wa2ise:

Could you mean a "Third Party" agency like BIU or Middle Dept? Middle Dept. is still operational & based in PA, I believe.

Even today, some towns use "Third party" inspectors, state licensed (NJ), but they are employees of the agency, not the town, hence saving on expenses and benefits.

The twp I work in has plumbing inspections from a third party agency, in lieu of hiring a twp employee.

As to the OP's inquiry...that probably would not happen here in NJ.

Don't know the details, the sticker is long gone (it had glue similar to that used on old style postage stamps, the ones you had to lick). But I vaguely remember my father saying that you could select your electrical inspecting agency (he worked for an architecture company back then, as an accountant so he knew who could be called upon). But my father checked out about 15 years ago, so I can't ask him about it... I suppose he still needed permits from the town, and someone from the town must have had to check that an inspection had been passed, at some point in time. But that would only require a generic government bureaucrat to do.

The key word above is 'agency'!

I was a contract inspector for the State of Florida for 8 years but that was a special deal. (only state projects). During the go go years Lee County Fl was contracting out some of their inspections. Nobody really made me an offer I couldn't refuse although a couple of the IAEI officers worked for the engineering company that was doing it and "bumped" me a couple times.
The real rules were that they would own the whole permit from start to end but the reality was they would just get inspection cards now and then for things that started with Lee County. That was when a muni inspector might walk out in the morning with 40 cards spread out over half the county.

Here in the Chicago area very few jurisdictions do enough elevator inspections to be able to stay current with the requirements. Quite a few of the suburbs use the same small firm to review plans and do field inspections.

Some of the suburbs even farm out their complete plan reviews to private firms to keep the bureaucratic costs down.

I'm one of those 3rd party inspectors that work for a fee. Nice way to pick up some cash, but a definite cut in pay from my contracting income. I got into it for several reasons, but mostly looking forward to the day I hang up the tools.

There are advantages to not working for a government agency - no politics, plus the ability to move on to another agency if the head office gets too cranky.

Tom:
Yes, looking forward to hanging up the tools (for whatever reason) is a good reason to obtain inspector credentials.

Here in NJ the 3rd party guys work for a State approved company, and are hourly/salary/per diem employees. All of us inspectors are state lic., and answer to the DCA, no matter who pays our salary.

Certain jobsites (rail stations, toll roads, state property) require permits and inspections by State DCA. Plan review for certain school projects and health care facilities are performed by DCA, but inspected by 'locals'.

As to elevator inspectors...the majority of the State uses either an agency, or the State DCA. Amusement rides are state also.

Sounds like just another party to sue when your house burns down...

In Florida a contract inspector while working under contract to the government has the same sovereign immunity as a government inspector.
You sue the inspector, you are really trying to sue the state that is holding up a law that says you can't

Going private seems to me a double edge sword. One of my hats I wear is government electrical inspector. Granted Federal is different from State and state is different from city/munies. I have seen government try to privitize operations and in the end they pay more and get less. Government funtion by contract. The more you put into it, the more it is going to cost you, the taxpayer. the less you put it it, the more you, tax payer will pay in trying to make a contract with holes in it work. The private guys with look out for their employers best interest, do little as humanly possible in order to maximize profit. In theory and there are many who do that work for the government that looks out for employers best interest, the taxpayer.

Being on both side of the fence, I understand way more how the government functions and disfunctions. For those of you who were in the military can better understand what I mean. Everyone one is bound buy rules, regulations and assignment. No matter who you are, we answer to somebody, we are responsible to perform our duties with in the prescribe rules and regulations even if we do not like them. If we do not like the rules and feel strongly about them, there are ways you can change them. At the same time, we live in a democracy so one person does not call the shots despite what some may think.

Good inspectors are in the same boat. The have rules and regs to follow too. Yes there are bad apples out there. There are processes in place to fix that. It is not easy. I founds some regs I must follow that ties my hands which is costing you money. I felt addiment (spelling) about it to the point I have push it all the way through our Washington Office where soon as the red tape settles and three years later, I will be able to do more at less expense.

I feel that the inspectors should stay in govenment. They are the ones who enforce the rules in the building sector like cops who enforce the rules in the legal sector. Can you imagine what it would be like if we privatize the police department? Has anyone seen Robocop?


Our govenment is not perfect. no govenment is. We do have a say in ours unlike other parts of the world. If you govenment is busted, fix it or take it as is. Get involved.

Excuse me while I step off my soap box.

This was the way it was in Pa untill a couple of years ago. The problem is the contractors were paying said inspectors to check there work. Some got better service if you know what I mean. I knew of a firm that would walk down the street of duplexes and make a list of the lot #s each being a $50. fee. never even set foot in the buildings. In some states when the inspector gets money from the contractor it is known as a brib. It has changed now. Things goes through the local municipality but they also add there fee in. and the inspection firms charge more, I guess cause they have to deal with the municipality.

"If it's broke, fix it"

I would not say that's the main goal of this thread, so much as a desire to turn a plain-Jane motor city mediocrity into a magnificent muscle car.

Do our existing methods work? Sure they do. Can they work better? I don't think that's in dispute either; of course they can. The question is: where do we go from here?

Economists from Adam Smith to Walter E. Williams have advocated the 'market' as the best way to address myriad social ills. Assuming this is the case, how does one apply market dynamics to further code compliance?

"Bribery" can be seen as market forces working against code compliance. Insurance premiums can be seen as a way to engourage certain actions: instal sprinklers and you pay less (as an example).

Government is government, no matter the task. I think the approach Missouri has taken with their DMV suggests possibilities as for how to introduce market forces into the equation.

Unlike the example some of you have cited, there is no single private group given a monopoly over any area. You can go to any "DMV" office and accomplish what you need. Indeed, this is what my family does, shunning the nearest office for a better-run operation a few towns over.
This is quite different from -to cite another local example- the way electrical contracting is handled in St. Louis county, where one person reigns like a monarch, deciding who may do electrical work. Whether that person does a good job is not the issue; by all accounts, the person currently in the job attempts to do as good a job as they can. Yet, even saints die- and there's no way to assure that the next one will do as well.

Is the missouri DMV showing us the way to 'change the dynamic' in a good way?

Reno:
We strayed off of your original subject....

Back to DMV; here in NJ the DMV agencies were 'private' operators, answering back to the state. Long story short...it was a mess. It went back to State operated (Now MVC) and it's almost a painless experience! They keep making improvements, all of which are better.

Our motor vehicle inspection stations are privately operated (under contract) and that was a hated experience for quite a while. Our last Gov. (McGreavy) made that a priority, and he got it straightened out, and still private.

In Florida the DMV is at the tax collector's office. At least they are honest about what DMV is.
They do seem to try to make it pleasant.
Personally I think "DMV" should just be managed by the insurance companies. Those are the people who have skin in the game, they already maintain a national database, sharing information better than 50 states and DC and you are required to buy insurance anyway.