Hi folks,
Just looking to compare notes with you guys in the US.

Over here in NZ, anyone that fixes the electrical parts of appliances (say washing machines, stoves and the like) must have a current practicing licence as an Electrical Service Technician.

I would imagine that this would (loosely) be the equivalent of a Restricted Electricians Licence in the US (and maybe a few other countries too).
I realise it varies between states and what-not.

But, here is the crux of my question, when that EST fixes or alters the appliance, they MUST affix what is known as an Electrical Safety Certificate (about the size of a credit card and it is an adhesive-backed sticker) to the back of the appliance.

What the EST must fill out on it, is their registration no, a contact phone no., the date the repair or what-ever was done and a signature that the appliance was tested to ensure it is electrically and operationally safe to use, after the work has taken place and the tech has left.

What I suppose I am getting at is that electricians must pull a permit to do electrical work that could potentially kill or injure some one.

Now, there is no way that a permit system for appliance repairs would ever be remotely workable.
But the potential for shock or injury is more or less on the same level, if a repair is mucked up and the appliance is not tested before the tech leaves.

Reason I bring this up, is, I was sent to a place this morning, where a lady recieved a near fatal shock after having her washing machine repaired, because it used to cut in and out all the time during a wash.
The tech replaced the plug on the end of the cord supplying the washing machine and left.

An ESC was used in this case and I was able to find out who did the repair with a phone call.

The plug had been wired with the phase and earth backwards, effectively livening the metal body of the washing machine.

Being able to track who has done these repairs would certainly be helpful.

Your thoughts please?

In most places I have been in, anyone can repair appliances and they just need a business license if they charge money for it. A few companies make it a little harder for anyone but a factory authorized repair shop to get wholesale parts but they have to make the parts available "retail".
This becomes an issue when the delivery driver also becomes the installer. That is why I prefer anything that can be cord and plug connected, be C&P.
I have also never heard of that Oregon permitting process for small items like ballasts and I bet it virtually never happens that easy replacements like that get permitting here in Fla. It is hard enough to get HVAC replacements permitted and they do that with pre approved permits the installer buys ahead of time. I have yet to see how they are going to deal with the new energy code requirement that they submit energy calcs before they can replace a condenser. My bet, they just swap them out and never get a permit.

I'm not aware of any mandatory certification requirements for appliance techs in the U.S., but nowadays, there is a lot of very good training info available if someone really wants to learn appliance service.

Here in my state, the appliance techs can generally work on any related electrical, gas, water or refrigerant [with EPA 608 Cert.] within the appliance itself, but nothing external beyond the electrical cord cap, water or gas line without the proper respective state licensing.
Most techs will probably connect a saddle valve to the homes cold-water branch piping for a refrigerator icemaker water supply line, but even that may be considered as pushing the boundaries, since the potable water system is involved.

I think that the repair company's invoice is normally the only evidence you would usually have to indicate that anyone "reputable" had serviced the equipment.
If there's no record of the service because the homeowner hired some fly-by-night repairman to do the work and paid in cash, then that's where law enforcement may need to get involved to track him down, certainly if someone was injured or killed as a result of his work.


On a related note, these days, with so many different appliance brands and models, each with their own specialized electronics and servicing techniques along with DIY internet competition and the need to stock many expensive, brand specific replacement parts, service tools and equipment, it's very difficult to turn a profit in appliance service, unless your connected with a large, high volume regional or national service outfit. Add to this the lower cost of replacing appliances versus repairing things like window AC's and the profit of non-warranty repairs disappears completely.
This is mainly why I no longer offer any appliance repair service for other than immediate family members.
All I can say is… all of my own household appliances and HVACR equipment work fine… and I don't miss the endless circle-jerk associated with that type of work at all.

I disabled the 3rd redundant safety microswitch of my microwave oven when it failed. There are now only 2 redundant safety switches left between me and the microwave not shutting off by itself if I yank open the door while it's running.

This is my right as an American! I don't have a pacemaker, nor does anyone in my family, and frankly, recieving a small % of 1000W of microwave radiation is not the least bit harmful to humans. (Lemme tell you a funny story about me and a microwave-oven magnetron in an RF lab about 15 years ago...)

What you do to yourself is nobody's business but yours, but what you do to people that you're "helping" is another story...

Interesting comments,
May I say that I was talking about those that repair appliances as their normal day job, not those that "repair" their own appliances.

Having said that, during my apprenticeship as an Electrician, I was required to be able diagnose and repair faults in most common household appliances, to pass the 3rd Qualifying Exam.

This included Stoves, Fridges, Heaters of varying types, Air Con gear, Washing Machines, Clothes Driers, Ceiling Fans and other bits of junk.

Mike:
I have to look into appliance repair guys here (NJ) as to what (if any) licences are required.

As to permits/stickers, I can only recall seeing a "call me' type label from the smaller repair guys. Permits are not required. There are also factory (mfg) repair/service guys, and large (Sears) retail ops that provide service/repair.

I see your point about shoddy repairs, and possibility of injury or worse.

Most, if not all the sparkies that I know....don't touch appliances. My personal thoughts over the years was and still is....do only what you do best; leave what you don't know alone.

boy, it sure sounds like NZ has it all over the usa in the appliance dept....

~S~

In Washington State:
-------------------
Do you need to hire an electrical contractor to repair your household appliance?

If your household appliance is cord-and-plug connected, then:

Neither an electrical contractor's license or an electrician is needed to install or replace (plug in) the appliance. The electrical law does not regulate repair work done in the appliance repair shop environment. Electrical contractor licensing and a certified electrician is required for repair work done on the owner's premises.

If your household appliance is hard-wired, then:

An electrical contractor utilizing properly certified electricians must be used to install, repair or replace the appliance.
--------------------------
--from http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Electrical/BasicElectInstall/Appliances/Default.asp

Mike:
I overlooked another 'biggie' in repairs...
One of the POCO's (PSE&G) has a "Worry Free" division that repairs appliances. They do both electric & gas appliance service in areas approved by BPU. Also, the gas utilities have repair/service people. The gas guys stick to furnaces, gas ranges/ovens and dryers.

When the code changed and required separate neutral and ground on dryers it messed up all the delivery guys. I have seen them change the old 3 wire receptacle to a 4 wire (no ground) a 4 wire to a 3 wire, use a 4 wire cord leaving the ground loose and the bond on. Or leaving the bond on and a 4 wire cord.
And speaking of dryers, I could not count the number of dryer ckts here that were wired with 10-2 w/g even with inspectors approval, something that NEVER has been code approved.

Now that is spooky I did see that as well almost ready say get new conductors and be done right.

I did check with State of Wisconsin it kinda mixed bag on applanice repairs.

{ in France it must be done with cerified electrician to proprely hookup electric applanices if fuel gaz it must be done by qualifed gaz fitter or plummer if they have gaz cerifiton for it.}

Merci,Marc

Trumpy,

I use to repair appliances when I was in business and only as a courtesy to my best customers. I didn't like it. There were too many things to go wrong. Now with all of the new electronics in the appliances, I would be scared to death to try and repair something.

The only problem with the "new electronics" in modern appliances is the price of the parts you have to stock.
Nobody really fixes the cards and they get sold at a 500% markup or more.
They put this stuff in there because it is cheaper at the manufacturing level, buying 10,000 at a time but when you get in the "1 or 2 at a time" level they get real expensive.

Personally I won't buy any new appliance with the soft pad button/solid state controller and that has me nursing a Carter administration wall oven along.
When it finally dies of something I can't replace, like the whole cabinet rusts out, I only hope I can find an "electronic" one that will still take the whole mechanical timer/thermostat control panel as an assembly. Maybe I can find a relatively new one that was blown up by lightning ;-)

Indeed Harold,
Appliances have changed considerably since I did my time and I can fully agree with what you are saying.
To say appliance servicing is a specialised thing, doesn't really give it the respect it deserves.

Having said that,
Those that are still in it over here, are only in it because they have an almost intimate relationship with spare parts suppliers.

If I can't get parts for a pretty much generic appliance off the shelf at the supply store, I'm more or less stuffed as to repairing the appliance.

I've fixed a few ovens, fridges and the odd TV set for relatives (Can't deny my own family of hot food, cold beers and rugby! ) over the last few years, but that is about as far as I am willing to go into appliance repair, I understand how these appliances work.

But at the end of the day, it also has to be an economical repair as well, sure you might have fixed the thing, but if it took you say, 2 days to diagnose and repair the thing, you aren't going to ever break even.

As Greg mentioned above, with electronics becoming the rule of the land as far as appliances go nowadays, I'd sooner get a guy that knows the appliance, rather that have me muck the whole thing up, besides, if he works with them all the time, he's more than likely to have the proper service manuals for it as well.

the ceiling fan one is kind of expected in my opinion