I'll give a little background first, I have a master electrician's license in Florida. Work in Florida has all but ground to a halt with exception of some very large companies; but there are lots of places elsewhere looking for licensed journeymen. I wonder why there isn't a national minimum recognition of a master's license in one state as at least a journeyman everywhere else. the tests are all based on national code a downgrade to journeyman elsewhere also removes the immediate threat of competition coming along from someplace else. I'd like to hear thoughts on this.

I'm not sure I understand your complaint, question, or desire.

True, the trade is regulated in widely varying ways in different places. It is also true that this regulation is often claimed to primarily exist for restricting competition.

Yet, such claims need support. It's just too easy an assertion to make. Ditto for similarly cynical claims as to access to apprenticeship programs.

Whatever credentials you have, they will be critical in placement of you by the various trade-related employment services.

Bear in mind that the market in understandably cautious; I'm sure you have seen all manner of poor work performed by supposedly qualified persons.

We have inter provincial trades in Canada

http://www.red-seal.ca/Site/trades/index_e.htm

Electrician being one of them

I can't help but agree with you over most of what you said; especially quality vs. certification. I have also run into circumstances wherein electrical products have completely different different nicknames depending where you go (which makes you look silly for claiming to have broad and deep experience and not knowing, for example, that in Arizona, they call a studguard a "dottie plate" rather than a "nail plate" in florida - both are nicknames.) (in fact I was recently rebuked by a leadman for saying that #1 [thhn]is suitable for 130A his reply "#1 is good for 200A" - he had been a lineman before turning 'electrician')

yeah Doug, my wife has her Canadian citizenship and was telling me that her ex. (another electrician) is certified all over Canada - period.

We don't have a State License in NY. Neighboring counties don't even reciprocate with each other where I am.

In all fairness though, Licensing requirements are different between my County and the next. Length of experience to qualify is one (I think), and another has to do with required CEUs.

Bill

This is a states rights issue and the feds have no business looking at a national electrical license.

Still, would be nice if more states would reciprocate licenses, even if they caveot with things like requiring the work be supervised by an in-state master electrician, etc.

I'll go one below Bill, PA only has local city/municipality licensing. If I become a journeyman in Falls, I'd need to go to Bristol Township and get a license to work across the street.

That's all in the future for me though, so back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Ian A.

Which jurisdiction are we talking about. As far as I know there isn't a "master electrician" license issued by the state, only the various contractor licenses.
Wiremen are licensed in some municipalities tho.
Considering how bad Florida is about recognizing other state's licenses I doubt there will be much reciprocity out there.

as "Master" I was referring to the EC and ER class contractor licenses; I'm basing this in tradition: The highest "grade" above journeyman is master; a journeyman may not contract electrical work in his own right (by tradition only a master can) ergo "EC or ER" = master. (I'm told by EC holders that it is pretty much the same test with more hoops to jump through &c.)

According to Mike Holt Florida has reciprocity with Georgia, Alabama and North Carolina

http://www.mikeholt.com/statelicense.php

Certain aspects of this would be nice, like not having to sit for a test again or the possibility of more uniform standards.

However, I remember here when MD and DE were trying to get reciprosity worked out. One state required a pasing grade of 70, the other 75. One IIRC required CEU's, the other did not.

Here my state license does not allow me to do any work. It is just a mechanism so I do not have to test for each local jurisdictions license. Just show the state license and proof of insurance and pay your money and become licensed locally.

I would be more happy with a uniform adoption of the Code within the state. One here is on the 93, another adopts the 08 next month. Sure makes it difficult to remember what is OK under what Code cycle.

I Have always worked in NC. We reciprocate with half a dozen other states in the southeast. Here you get your ec liscense and can pull permits anywhere in the state. I thought it was that way everywhere. I didn't realize that there was this mass of inconsistancy throughout the country. It's hard enough going county to county with the same code.

We've got Towns within the same County using different codes. Some areas use one Code for Residential and a different code for Commercial.

Bill

Bill, Florida used to be the same way. That is how I got my state inspector job. The state did not want to deal with a hundred different building codes when they designed and built something so they had their own state building department. Finally they passed a state building code that everyone needs to use, unaltered.
Now if we could just get the AHJs to interpret it the same way. The trades say they still have to do things
the "Cape Coral way" the "Lee County way" and the "Collier County way" etc. It is still a lot better than having 1000 AHJs writing amendments.

Greg,

We have a State Code too. Jurisdictions can enforce a more restrictive code with approval from the State. In at least one case however, it seems that approval was not granted, but that's a can of worms no one seems to want open.

Bill

National licencing is not a new concept or talking point. Back in 1990 there was a group NBEE (National Board of Electrical Examiners). They tried to start national lisencing and were doing some testing.I took a test when I Lived in Lake Jackson TX. I think it cost about $ 150.00 . How I got involved with them was I read a article in EC&M I called their number (NBEE) and they sent the test to the college. I did pass the test and got my certificate. I have only met one other electrician that had the NBEE certification.I would get news letters from them and as best I recall only 5 to 7 states bought into the concept then they must have gone out of business because I have not heard anything from them in years.
In my opinion in order for national lisencing to work a organization like NFPA or some national building code organization needs to be behind it. There is local revenue issues involved here a the cities and states would loose revenue from not being able to issue lisenes. One way to smooth over that issue is to have a national certification program and if you do what ever it takes to keep up your cerification you could present your national certification papers to the lisencing authority and buy your local lisense.
That those who want national lisencing would have it and those who dont want it would have local lisencing.
Just a thought.
Hypress

The ICC seems to be trying to establish a 'national certification' through the back door.

Places -like Reno- that have adopted ICC building codes also are letting the ICC administer the test, issue the card. It is hoped that other ICC-adoptive places would, in turn, recognize the ICC card.

That's kind of the idea; with deference to resqcapts reiteration of the 10th amdt. about state's rights. the code is "National" (depending on states choosing to adopt, etc. etc.) I had a teacher tell me (the class) once that the national code is the MINIMUM, you can meet code and still not have a real quality job. And there are state, county, and local ordinances too. But if you PROVE competency in national code (the minimum), by some accredited testing authority, shouldn't all of the states (who claim to be NEC adoptive and compliant) voluntarily recognize: "you passed the highest test your state issues; we can grant you automatic recognition as the next step below without further testing, pay the issuance fee and away you go."

Samurai, "national licensing" is a topic that reaches far beyond our trade, and I seriously doubt that we'll see any solution in our lifetime ... let alone find a solution that satisfies everyone.

Look at it this way: what's the worst crime you can think of? Murder? Yet, 'murder' laws are left to the individual states. Put in this context, licensing and building codes are pretty minor things.

Our Constitution does provide that you 'retain all rights and privileges' when in another State; this has been applied to require the recognition of, among other things, drivers; licenses and marriage licenses. Yet, the same logic has not been applied to trade licenses. Indeed, for the longest time the AMA had not a single board member licensed to practice medicine in the State where the AMA is based (Illinois). Whether this recognition should be extended to trade licenses is the question at the heart of the issue.

Nor is trade licensing even uniformly considered to be a "State" issue; many States leave it to the counties and cities.
For example, the State of Nevada licenses electrical contractors, but your journeyman card is issued by the city.

As for "national" codes .... I'm sure the NFPA, and every other code writing group, would love to be in charge of a truly 'national' code. Yet, last I heard, our national laws were passed by Congress - not conventioneers. Our codes really are local codes .... even when the locale chooses to adopt a 'model' code without any changes. Again, this distinction was critical in the Veeck copyright case.

That's just the way this country is set up.

Not that your time, training, and certifications are wasted. I am sure that, should you relocate, that you will at least be allowed to apply - something not allowed those without other qualifications.

I actually like the idea of local(state) licensing for several reasons. I think when work is slow in certain areas, the market will be flooded in other areas.If it was a blanket license. It's based purely on supply and demand. And when the supply outweighs the demand the price drops. I personally like making more than the guy sweeping the parking lot. I feel that the licensing fees i pay every yr to MA, R.I, and CONN, make me a valuable asset to my company. Since they operate in all those states I can work in all of them when needed.
The Second reason I'm against a national license is fly by night electricians. With no roots in a particular area how can you possibly maintain any kind of warranty. Additionally what kind of insurance premiums will you be paying for hopping all over the place?Just my opionon

I would tend to agree. It would only benefit those few who went state to state. The vast majority of contractors work around their home and the surrounding counties.

Look at New England a license in Conneticut is not valid in Rhode Island,Massachusetts,New Hampshire,Vermont and Maine. The Rhode Island license is only good in Rhode Island( although supposedly Oregon is reciprocal) And in Massachusett the license is valid in New Hampshire,Vermont,and Maine. And this is the set up in New England.

Because the Contractors Nationwide are going to see it only from their perspective. They'll all think they're way is the ultimate answer.
The paperwork, discussions, court cases, etc. would provide enough red tape to tie up the process for at least 100 years.

I see all the previous answers are from back East, with the exception of Reno.
There is not even a Master's classification in California, the classification just doesn't exist.

Then there's the issue that Don brought up about State's rights.

Are you willing to admit that your way isn't the best way?

Better to let sleeping dogs lie.

I like the idea of a national licensing standard with full reciprocity. I know that will never happen due to regional differences in climate, etc. Still, I'd be happy if I could just write one check instead of the thousands of dollars' worth of separate checks to each state, county, city and town in Maryland/Virginia and DC. It is ridiculous and they all work on different renewal cycles. Some two years, some one. It is almost a full-time job to keep up with them.

Forget about that part of it for a moment. I'd rather see a uniform standard in the permit process. Many areas around here are simple rubber stamp upon payment in full deals. Others require a full plan review with a return trip to receive the permit. In some cases, these jurisdictions are across the street from each other. It is just crazy.

Then we have jobs that have a "county" addresses that appear to be in the city or vice-versa. We can have a job in with a Fairfax, VA mailing address, but it is actually not in the city of Fairfax, it is in the county of Fairfax. We have Alexandria, VA jobs that might be in the city of Alexandria or the county of Fairfax, again two different processes. The town of Herndon, VA has it's own "two-day" permitting process, where most of the Herndon addresses are actually under the jurisdiction of Fairfax County. The same thing goes on in Montgomery County, MD where half of the Rockville, MD addresses are in the city of Rockville and the other half are in Montgomery County. My head is about to explode with all of the differing permitting standards.

It's all about each of them maintaining enough separation to justify the requirement for multiple licensing and permitting fees. It's all about the money, that's all.

Sorry for the sidetrack. I'm sure that it is like this everywhere. I'd still like to see a national format for licensing AND permits. Pipe dream for sure.

I like the state wide license, not national.
Our (Ma.) recips are based on the code cycle (mainly).If your in our current code then most likely we will recip.

National, NO, for reasons cited above.