checking for live circuits.. do you trust the "touch light indicators" .?

MJ;
I never really put a lot of faith in them, they're ok, but I still prefer a decent set of voltage testers myself, heard to many horor stories.

We use the "touch lite" units for a quick reference....but we check with a "wiggy".
I use a "tic-tracer" that "beeps" as a helper to locate cb's if I'm alone. It don't take coffee breaks, sick days, or complain!
John

What are the "touch light" indicators?

Is that the one that's a little neon bulb in a screwdriver handle where you touch the copper "cap" at the end and stick the other end into the socket holes?

If that's the one, I have one....makes a good mini screwdriver...but I'm too chicken to stick that into a wall socket.

I use a little gadget that consists of a series of neon bulbs and two wire probes.

Each bulb is marked with a voltage (110, 220, etc.) so depending on which one lights up, that's what the voltage is across the circuit. Then of course there's my multimeter...

I remember back at the tech I was in the co-op program. On the job one of my 1st days there was this veteran electrician who they called the human wiggy. I asked why, so they introduced me to him and he showed me how he checks for live ckts with his two fingers! I couldn't believe it, so I checked with a voltage tester sure enough it was live. Then he said to me it was initiating time! I was considering running at that instance, but he just laughed and said, gohead it won't hurt u it just runs between your two fingers. Never touched it. That was 20 yrs ago, every once in a while I still run into the ole human wiggy, wondering if he's lost a few brain cells over the years.

Sven:
The "touch lite" tester is an item made by Fluke, Amprobe, Gardner-Bender, TIF, etc.
It's similar in size to a magic marker, or a "fat" pen.
Operation is:
You touch the tip on a "live" conductor and the tip illuminates. Some models have a audible tone additionally. The concept is that you can have an indication of potential (voltage) in a conductor without having to open any splices, or "skin" the conductor.
The tip of the Fluke model is capable of fitting into the "hot" slot of a receptacle.

They are a great tool for a fast indication of voltage.....BUT they do not "indicate" what the voltage is. Voltage ranges of 24 to 1500/122000 volts are available, DEPENDENT on the unit you buy. The hi-voltage TIF model requires a hot stick adaptor. Price range is $15 to $125.00.

I have a Fluke and a TIF (w/hot stick)

Hope this answers your query....
John

Wirenutt:
I thought the only "cheap" 'lectrician was a guy here in NJ who tests circuits the way your human wiggy does....
Guess he's got a relative where you are.
John

I use a Fluke. I used to use a cheaper one, I beleive it was a GB. The problem with the cheaper ones (and it can be a problem with the better ones too) is that when going inside an enclosure to check for hot wires, a cheaper one will light up as soon as you get close and you cannot determine what is hot and what is not.
These testers are not the final say for me either but can be valuable to seperate circuits etc.

The induction sensors are great as a quick refereence only. For trouble shooting a wiggy or multimeter is the only way to go.

I think they are the "cat's meow"! If knowing whether or not a circuit with "hazardous" voltage is present it is great. Obviously it can't let you know exact voltages. I found one that worked 0-24 volts. It was great for tracing fire alarm circuits.

My volt-probe has probably saved my life. But, I don't entirely trust it. However, it and my strippers are the two tools I use the most, and the probe is the first tool to touch a box (and its innards) before I work on it.

I too, have used the "human wiggy" tecnique, but only on 120V or less, and after my volt-probe and common sense says it's off (after insuring that the probe works on a known live circuit). I figure it's better to get hit from finger to thumb (touching LIGHTLY is the key) than from hand to hand while stripping the conductor and with a good strong hold on it.

I've only had the probe give me false "offs" when the NM Cable is damp, false "ons" are more common due to "phantom" voltage and inductance.

I've never had my fingers give me a false "reading"!

I carry a tic-tracer. It's OK for checking if a wire is on, but I certainly don't trust it to check if it's off.
I have a Fluke T-5 that lives with me , and also carry an old SqD Wiggy.
The high Z Fluke often shows a voltage when the circuit is off, due to capacitance in home runs, etc.
The solenoid wiggy still gives me the best on/off signal of all.

This has also become one of my favorite tools along with my 7.2 volt dewalt screwdriver. I use mine on trouble-shooting and tracing loose neutral wires mostly. Saves undoing lots of splices in old buildings. I always confirm with a DMM when I think I have located the problem. I will second the damp false off with "66" though. Got bit pretty good one day kneeling in the wet grass. Since then if I have to touch it I use a back up.
Wirewiz

Some one may have already said this, but before I intentionally become a "human wiggy", after I verify it with a tester or whatever, if there is any doubt, I'll short it out with my screwdriver and turn my head. Better to have a burnt screwdriver than a heart stopper

I do use one of the 'non-contact' voltage testers, but only on a circuit where there is no neutral or earth conductor.
Otherwise, I use a Duspol tester.
I also use a High Voltage tester with Hot stick (like HotLine was mentioning), for tracing Phase Outages on 11kV lines, this is
used on the end of an extendable fibreglass rod, so that it can be done from the ground.

Like any other instrument, Alternating-Current non-contact voltage testers require experience to safety/effectively use. I feel they improve overall electrical safety, if not used "blindly." Clearly there are various grades and prices for the devices. The technology is used daily up to 765kV. Combination flashing-light/audible versions are desirable.

Not verifying on a known-live source immediately before and after proving a deenergized circuit can be suicide.

Yep, to illustrate:

I got my driver's license back when the speed limit was 55mph. All throughout my young adult life, I always had a radar detector, and learned how to use it effectively. Instant-On Radar made detectors practically useless and the raise to 70mph (here) made them unneccesary.

I've since aquired a GPS Emap, which is a lot of fun and very useful, especially to the directionally challenged like myself. Once again, it required getting used to, learning what it could and could not do.

Computers are another example, but you all here know about them!

I guess what I'm saying is, the instrument is as only as good as the operator. You must know what it is capable of doing and not doing. Sometimes, one has to learn by trial and error, which could be deadly when it comes to testers!

But none of them are fool-proof.

About the human-wiggy: FYI only, DONT TRY THIS AT HOME!

When I was first showed the tecnique, I thought my mentor was nuts! But with one hand, checking first to make sure you're isolated from any ground or other source, lightly touch the metal box, neutral, or ground wire with your thumb, and lightly tap the suspected hot wire with the tip of your index finger on the same hand. Touch nothing or no one else. Keep the other fingers tucked and touch with the tip, not the pad. Less likely to get locked in that way.

I only do this as a final test on what would otherwise be considered a dead circuit (by probing and metering). If I'm gonna have to touch it anyway, I touch it this way first.



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-20-2002).]

Hey sparky66, how do you know you never got a false reading with your finger wiggy? :-)

Ummmm... Hmmmm... Good Point!

I can see that these devices have their uses, but I've never been that keen on them myself and don't use them. I prefer to apply a regular meter -- Tested on a known energized circuit first!

A very good tester is one called “Modiewark” used by line crews extensively. Made in Australia. Used for <230kV but can be tested on a 120V circuit.

heh!
"Human Wiggys......sounds like a good promo for those wierd tv shows lately....


btw,
were any here shown 'backhanding' as i was?

the theory being any potential applied to the back of the hand would cause musclar contraction forward....

I have a Greenlee "pen" type tester. Blinks red and chirps when near AC. Problem is, it will blink and chirp just by touching it sometimes -- to the point where it can be distracting with such "false hits." It does have a slotted end that can be inserted into a receptacle, though. Other than the false hits, it has helped confirm suspicions on a few occasions where "Creative Wiring 101" must have been the order of the day. (I have seen the very same model, 1110, sold at Home Depot. They keep them locked in the display with the Klein tools, etc.)

As to a Human Wiggy, the WORST is when one didn't set out to test the circuit. The SURPRISE! is sometimes worse than the "zing."

I saw a guy up on a ladder upgrading a service who brushed his elbow against some strands of the entry cable while he was working on it. I think he was more embarassed than anything else -- he let out quite a few "choice words."

Also saw the old "short it with the lineman's pliers" method of determining which breaker serves the circuit. I prefer using a "chirper" -- much less dramatic and quite a bit more safe ;-)

Not recommended where said breakers are Federal Pacific, I assume.

If there is no neutral present, I use one of those screwdrivers with a resistor and a light in it, the ones Sven mentioned. Otherwise I use an indicator with 2 probes and 2 LEDs indicating DC, AC and DC polarity or a DMM.
My dad uses the "human wiggy" way with standard european wires (= 230V to ground).