Are 'Closed Wall Inspections' or 'Electrical Surveys' being done by inspectors where you are?

Bill,

Can you explain yourself a little bit better? Do you mean, when a contractor installs new receptacles and he has to fish the wire in a closed wall, so that there is no "rough" inspection? Is that what you mean? Or do you mean, having the inspector going back into a business, when it changes ownership, to check for any electrical violations? Here in NJ it is called a Certificate of Continued Occupancy (CCO) A third thing comes to mind also. When a job was done and no rough inspection was given, then all you can have is a final inspection. In this case an engineer or architect, or Lic. elec. contractor has to sign off on the rough inspection. Am I close with this?

Harold,

What I mean is where an Inspector will inspect installations at some point after it is all closed up. It could have been done by anyone. Sometimes it is soon after the job is completed and other times it could be years. In the past someone here could get such an inspection (called a 'survey') which would simply state that no violations were observed, or something along those lines. Recently some of the local Building Depts. have been saying that they will no longer accept this type of inspection and walls would have to be opened up.

What happens in a situation like this where work has been completed by someone (anyone) and there was no rough-in inspection? Do the walls have to be opened up for inspection?

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 11-12-2002).]

I suppose we in Vt fall into the 'survey' catagory, sometimes my work is not viewed for 1/2yr or more after activation......

Bill,

Here in NJ in my towns, if someone closed up the walls before proper inspection was given, the job would fail. The homeowner might face fines, ( It is up to the construction code offical) and the homeowner has to either get a licensed electrical contractor to come in, check over everything to make sure verything was installed as per the NEC. Then they would and sign and seal a letter and permit taking responsiblity for the job. I can't take responsibility (nor can the town) for a job not inspected. The homeowner always has the option of opening up walls in order for me to do the proper inspection. Once a homeowner installed wires in metal studs without bushing, this person had to remove the top half of all the sheetrock (wallboard) and rewire the basment using the proper bushings. He was not a happy camper, but we didn't want to see a fire hazard or shock hazard.

About 15 years ago when I built my current house, the AHJ refused to give me a permit.

We wound up in Federal court (my lawyer was proceeding their so I could get attorney fees and punitive damages).

Just prior to settlement the judge indicated that tearing out the walls so the inspector could look inside was not going to happen.

I suspect a challenge of this type of inspection would prevail. After all one could put all of the wiring in after the walls are finished and in that case no one would ask that the wallboard be removed.

(I am in the process of finishing my shop. The inspector was kicked off the site for slandering my engineer during the rough framing inspection. The AHJ pulled the permit. I have since wired the building and drywalled it. I suppose that at some point someone will have the great idea of "opening up the walls." Then I expect to be back in court.)

Here in the LONE STAR STATE,there are no inspections outside the city limits.Inside the cities though,a rough-in inspection must be made prior to covering any walls or ceilings.If not,the AHJ can have you open them back up for inspection.

anyone who has played 'beat the sheetrocker' in this trade most likely would advocate an open wall inspection......

Bill, I did a job in Brookville, thought I filed for the job, guess I didn't. The inspector wanted me to rip the newly installed and painted sheetrock down. I thought that was a bad idea... He went on to tell me that in North Hempstead they are not allowed to file a closed wall inspection. After pleading with him, (we use them all the time and they know our work)he agreed to file it as if he did an open wall. WHEW that was a close one.

Bill,

In Minnesota, there are three types of closed wall inspections.

1. After all the finish work (electrical and the rest of the trades), new construction will be "finaled". Receptacles are tested, light switches flicked and the panel openned up one last time. All parts of the construction that resulted in open walls must have had a "rough in" inspection. If the rough in wasn't done, the AHJ handles the situation on its merits, or lack thereof, potentially resulting in all new drywall.

2. Any service upgrade of existing buildings will include a closed wall inspection to determine that the existing wiring meets the "Electrical Minimum Maintenance Code" that applies for the area. After passing, the AHJ will allow the PoCo to make its "permanent connection". As a genereal rule, the electrician will pull the permit, do all the work, and have one closed wall inspection at the end (the exception occurs with framing alterations or when wall surface replacement exposes the framing, both of which require rough in as well).

3. When a property is sold, a "Truth In Sale Of Housing" inspection, which includes the closed wall electrical inspection, occurs as the requirement of the locality, and if not so required, by the request of the lending institutions.

Al

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 11-13-2002).]

Bill:
As Harold indicated we perform CCO inspections on changes of occupancy for resi & commercial.
It consists of a visual inspection, basically looking for unsafe wiring that is "visable". I check electrical, and other inspectors check building, fire, plumbing, etc.
Any violations noted require repair, with the proper permits (homeowner allowed IF they live in house; commercial requires a lic. EC.
If the property passes the visuals they get a CCO (Continued Certificate of Occupancy)

As to "fished" work, we prefer to inspect it "rough" (before devices are installed) and final. But, sometimes it's only "Final".
I've had a few that needed the "sheetrock busters" but that is not a prevelant thing.
Most contractors, and owners understand the UCC rules.
John

Down here (over/up here?) it's been common for a long time for people to ignore permits and inspections until it's time to sell. This way they avoid paying taxes on these improvements and just get a 'survey' or 'closed wall' inspection when they have to. Some jurisdictions have been getting tough on this lately though. I have not seen any problems firsthand yet though, I do expect to see some eventually if they are serious about it.

Bill

the rough -in is required, before the walls are up here in mississippi

In NE our state electrical act says that the inspector will inspect the "rough in" with the walls open and who ever closes up the walls before the rough in will pay for the drywall to be removed for inspection and the reinstallation of the drywall. Those who try to play the game of going to court to hurry the job up get power removed untill the open wall inspection is done. All written into state law. Those who (anyone not just the sparky) wilfully violates the state electrical act can be charged with a class one misdemenor. Class one misdemenor has $1000.00 fine and/or 1 year in jail or both.

Now if only the DA would push it a little, a lot of generals/owners would quite screaming about the schedules so much.