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Posted By: SamC Help! - 11/10/02 01:56 AM
After being layed off 4 times in the last year from a plyewood mill, I started contracting out myself, I am registered and insured for $2 M
in my town to do res and com work. Today a customer liked the quote I gave on a job to wire a 3 bedroom bunk house< after checking with out of town contractors > she choose me.

Here's my problem, I gave 2 options
1st: Flat rate for the Bunk house only.
2nd: Hourly for what ever she needed to comply.

They want hourly. My problem is they want to do some of the wiring themself's to save on cost. The Elec permit is under my Contracting name and insured the same. I don't want to let them wire under my name.
What would you do?

P.S I don't need this job, Would any of you allow customers to do any of the elec work under your name beside digging the ditch.

Thanks in advance SamC
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Help! - 11/10/02 02:04 AM
Maybe you could use a variation of the "$30 per hour, $45 if you watch, and $60 if you help" theme...

Or: Anything you have to fix, repair or replace of their work to pass code is double time and double materials cost.

If you don't need the work, make it worth your while, then document everything you did and did not do. If it isn't legal in your state for a homeowner to do their own electrical work, then walk, no, run away.

Oh, and don't forget "consultation and education" fees if they ask you any questions.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-09-2002).]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Help! - 11/10/02 02:17 AM
Sam,
I would drop that one like a hot potato,
we have a system here in NZ, where people like me(Electrical Technician), have to certify the wiring done by others.
If they want to do their own wiring, ask them to get you to check it before any linings are applied, again after the accessories are fitted(ask them to leave the plates off the wall) and connect up all of the new work to the supplying board yourself, after testing it with a continuity tester, cover your own behind, it's damn near impossible to get your Licence back once you've lost it. [Linked Image]
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: Help! - 11/10/02 02:18 AM
Interesting conundrum SamC,

This is kind of at the heart of the DIY question.

I've worked with homeowners, on occasion. I require that they only work when I am present and that I review everything they do, before it is closed or covered up. They have to accept that I will need to teach them specifics and that I will include this time in my billable hours.

I my area, the local governments allow the owner / occupant of a single family dwelling to secure his own permit and do the work. Any other type of building requires an Electrical Contractor license holder to pull the permit.

Can your client pull their own permit? This, at minimum, records their involvement. If not, then they can't touch the tools unless you are present.

I have found my clients receptive to this notion, as, at heart, they really want a safe installation.

Al
Posted By: George Re: Help! - 11/10/02 04:07 AM
I am a firm believer in allowing people to DIY but ...

Around here anyone doing work on your permit would need to be licensed - that excludes DIYers. I suppose your insurer would not like them working either.

This is different than if you are asked to inspect or finish work done by a DIYer.
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: Help! - 11/10/02 04:21 AM
George,

Are apprentices in your area licensed?

Al
Posted By: sparky Re: Help! - 11/10/02 11:26 AM
point taken Al,
In my experience working with a DIY'er there is much explanation & some backtracking for boo-boo's.
This is not unlike a raw recruit to our trade.
The thing is, some listen/retain/perform, some do not and actually cost themselves more....
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Help! - 11/10/02 12:53 PM
Sam, you answered your own question. You don't need the work, and you don't want them wiring under your name. The fact that you have some doubt already is enough for me. You will undoubtedly regret this arangement at some point. Leave this for someone who doesn't mind this arrangement or someone who needs the work.
Posted By: Electric Eagle Re: Help! - 11/10/02 04:44 PM
Sam, I did something like this one time, but with a small contractor. It was a nightmare and I won't do it again. I could've wire the job myself in the time I spent answering questions and redoing taps. So I personally would say no.
Posted By: spyder Re: Help! - 11/10/02 05:09 PM
I have run into nitemares just letting homeowners supply their own fixtures. I could not imagine letting them do their own work.

As well intended as their efforts maybe, you will save yourself a lot of aggravation by insisting on doing the work yourself.
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: Help! - 11/10/02 07:44 PM
Sparky,

Quote
The thing is, some listen/retain/perform, some do not and actually cost themselves more....
It's kinda like kids. Not everybody can, or should, slow down to the the kid's level. For those that do, both the kid and the parent benefit.

Working with a DIYer is teaching. The DIYer comes away with more skill, hopefully, and, in my experience, a greater appreciation of the steepness of the learning curve. Again, in my experience, the DIYer experiences this as valuable, and is willing to pay (within reason) for the teaching.

When I do this, I don't hold anything back. I offer the info as if this person is to be the most valuable employee I have, even though they are not employees. The skill / knowledge set that each DIYer brings to the session adds to the outcome.

I think of the experience as a great opportunity to revisit the basics of wiring and to hone my ability to describe the what an why of each part of the assembly being worked on. I also get to practice talking while keeping my hands busy on task (which is always valuable when the paying party needs to watch and talk, but not do any work [Linked Image]).

Al
Posted By: Wirenuttt Re: Help! - 11/11/02 02:36 AM
I ran into situations like this a few times over the years. My advice to you is not to let them do any of the wiring. This will only open up a can of worms. They will definately screw something up, staple to hard, rip insulation, leave to short leads in box, etc.. And while your there they'll be asking you every 5 minutes how come, why, what about this, is this OK. And when you not there, your phone will be ringing off the hook, can I do this, what should I do here, etc... They chose to hire you to do the job at Time and material. I would do the job that you can both agree on, have the permit exact detail, have the inspector inspect exactly what you did. Then tell the homeowner if they want to add more wiring to do it on their own time. It is not worth it, besides, if something goes wrong, it's your license on the line, they didn't earn one.
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