Found this article, and thought you all should know about it so that you can help me "edit" it. This DIY crap is getting out of hand. talk about giving homeowners a false sense of "no big deal".

http://www.wikihow.com/Upgrade-Your-House-with-a-200-Amp-Electrical-Service

This is really bad people!

HOLY !@$%
Pulling the meter may kill the house wiring. But the drop is still wery LIVE and more than happy to kill someone. Someone needs to flag this to the Wiki Moderator as dangerously flawed information! Hopefully no one has yet to kill themself or burn thier house down.

I can't seem to find a moderator link there. I did try to put a warning in there, though. I hope that it will save somebody.

everytime I try to post warnings on the webpage, 2 minutes later they are gone. tried to warn the admin board too, and that also disappeared!

Same happened to me. I registered and reworded my comment. It seems to have stayed, for now.

When I did this at my house FPL handled all the service conductors beyond the meter. I provided the wire, they hooked it up. I wasn't sure if this was a safety issue or if they were just worried I might have a tap in the riser. I suggested to the engineer that I would pull in the SE, he said they would pull it out anyway. The guy in the bucket truck said he just likes to see the identification of the neutral at both ends before he hooks it up.
This may just be an "owner/builder" process.

That's worse than the suicide-cord-on-eBay-scam!

I say worse because this is free!

Ian A.

Stupid, stupid, stupid!!! The advice on how to pull the meter is about the worst part of that whole mess!! I've personally had a meter EXPLODE on me while removing it in a manner similar to what they describe, and all the POCO service guys I've met have told me that removing a meter is THE MOST DANGEROUS THING they do!!

And if that wasn't bad enough, the advice on cutting the drop, starting with the NEUTRAL, is really dumb!!

I didn't read any more beyond that as, like the OP, the more I read the madder I got.

Regardless of the obvious technical issues, irresponsible posting is definately the main concern. The article might as well be called "how to get a darwin award".

Step 1, the disclaimer, if you wanna call it that, is doubtfully going to stop anybody from doing what they think they can do anyway. I see huge lawsuits. I see blown up meters. I see dead people...

#6 copper or #4 aluminum to the ground rod? I've never seen that #4 AL can be legal in my 30+ years in the industry. Sounds like some know-it-all has found a few tables in the code book for AL/Cu ratings and feels that they apply across the board.

That's the most MINOR bad information that I saw given.

Wow, that entire post is an accident (and subsequent lawsuit) waiting to happen. I sure hope that someone figures out a way to squelch it before something really bad happens.

Well I edited it. It is all gone now. I deleted the whole thing except step one. We'll see if it comes back.

Didn't last very long. Someone reverted back.

Step #43 has the unsuspecting homeowner risking an arc flash in the face and a ruined meter clamp in an attempt to steal temporary power.

I added a description of what an arc blast is (feel free to correct any errors) to step 1. That might convince someone to call an electrician to handle this job...

"Please read the entire wiki before starting, so you might better understand seemingly conflicting information. Also be sure to understand what all the hazards and dangers are involved with high amperage high voltage that has no over current protection. Not only is there the usual shock hazard, there is a serious hazard called "Arc Blast". If a short circuit should occur on the power company lines before the main circuit breaker, there is nothing to open the circuit and thousands of amps at 120 or 240 volts will flow. This will be a huge amount of power converting itself into high heat, which will vaporize the wires and other metal. This will look a lot like an explosion, with very hot molten metal bits flying everywhere, and you will probably substain serious burns, and maybe start a fire."

The whole article seems to of disappeared (nominated for deletion on 10-16-2007)and replaced with these gems:

Update & upgrade your old fuse box or smaller electrical service to a modern electric service with circuit breaker convenience and 200 Amps capacity. Plan on a full day's work for yourself and able-bodied helper AND have a coffin handy.

This Wikihow could be better entitled "How to remove your own brain tumor", it's risky and there is high likelihood of your death.

If its gone, good. Shame I didn't get to read it though.

Don't worry, this article is still alive and kicking.
I tried to add a big warning in the warnings section,
but it may not do any good. I really hope Joe Homeowner doesn't try to follow this article because he'll probably end up a statistic. Oh, and I couldn't find the note warning about arc blast anywhere in the wiki article.

Correct, BB. I'm not familiar with "WikiHow" (didn't even know it existed until today!!)

Well, I have found out why our posts keep geting deleted there. Those (insert expletive) morons over at wiki how, consider editing of someone elses post bad form. So your posts are getting deleted by more morons who have no Idea what they are deleting. They ar edoing it merely on the principle of the thing. GRRRRR GOD I HATE STUPID PEOPLE

sorry
These idiots just seem to get under my skin.
Rant over

Anyone can edit a wiki. There are some who seem to think this is useful and keep reverting it back to earlier versions.

Isn't it technically illegal to tamper with the electric meter, since it's the lighting company's property?

I'm sure if you call the power company to remove the meter and disconnect the drop for you, they'll send a man out to do it.

They may charge you for it, but at least you're not messing with something that's not yours.

That is is exactly what I have been saying on many of my posts to the wiki. In addition to the safety aspects I have pointed out there, the meter and every thing before it are (in every case I know of, at least) the POCO's property and they typically get more than a little miffed if Joe Homeowner messes with either. Alas my statements fall on deaf ears there and some moron just reverts it to an earlier version five minutes after I post to it.

here is a link to the "discussion" page.

http://www.wikihow.com/Discussion:Upgrade-Your-House-with-a-200-Amp-Electrical-Service

thank you for your attention to this matter, and all your responses on there. looks like an outside chance that it could get voted deleted. not to say that another version won't pop up later, or some other site.
oh well..if we can educate/deter even one soul, we've at least help a little.

I added this to the discussion about deleting this "how to":

"I'm not an electrician, but an electrical engineer, and I have an understanding of what would happen if the homeowner accidentially shorts out the power company feed. Called an "Arc Blast" you would briefly have more energy than that used by large radio stations turning itself into heat at levels hotter than the surface of the Sun. This would cause an explosion of vaporized and molten metal from the wires and metal boxes. The homeowner would get burned badly, and this may even set the house on fire. A homeowner really doesn't want to mess with this hazard. And then there's the shock hazard. This is a job to contract out to a licensed electrician, he'll know all the proper procedures for dealing with these hazards. And also know all the revalent codes to do a professional install in a safe method. He will be the one to pull the permits and have the inspections done. You might as well have him clean up any other electrical issues you've been ignoring as well, it won't run up the cost that much more as he's already there. And you won't give your house insurance company an excuse to bail out of covering your house."

Amazing, Save $1200. And put your life at risk. Has anyone ever thought about inhaleing that molten metal.

Doctors (as good as they are) can't fix that, or be as gentile as one would like with the "wire" brush getting it off of your skin.

Not to mention the "grab" factor of the shock and electricity.

I'm very nervouse with every meter,even after 20 years.

I vote to delete!

Some of these sites... If you nicely tell them to stay away.."you don't have a clue"... Banned for life!!
Bad for their web site.
Oh Well.

That site is rather worrying, especially when you see advice like this freely meted out.

This part made me laugh...

That's gotta be a joke!!!!

Err....I actually did that to the city street light in front of our house when I was 14.
We were playing with a 2x4 and whacked the pole.
When the light went out we thought we broke it and bolted inside. When it came back on 15 min. later it became our new game for a while.

This is why I hate kids

IMHO you guys are not approaching this in the right way.

The post being discussed is irresponsible and dangerous, I _totally_ agree. However deleting this post will do very little good.

The problem is that _bad_ information is out there, and deleting a single copy of the bad information won't make it go away. The only way to deal with this is to supply _better_ information.

The site in question is all about 'Do It Yourself'. The article in question describes an extremely large project. The article fails on the following points:

1) It fails to do is to point out the large number of options and alternate situations that might be encountered.

2) It fails to point out the _extensive_ background required to choose the various options.

3) It fails to properly point out the extreme danger of some of the operations.

4) The article oversimplifies in the extreme!

5) Most importantly, it fails to provide guidance for to help the reader reasonably decide what their limits are, what they can _reasonably_ do themselves, and what they should hire a professional for. Simply saying 'hire a professional' will not be listened to; that is not new information. If someone was going to just hire a professional, they wouldn't be looking at the site in question, they would go to the yellow pages.

A qualified non-professional, one who takes the time to study the necessary requirements, is entirely capable of doing a substantial part of a whole house electrical system upgrade. Properly done, this leaves the electrician doing the more high value work (making more $ per hour), the home owner doing the lower value work that they can safely and competently do (reducing over-all price). Improperly done, someone gets dead. Getting this article deleted won't help the situation, so if you don't like this article, then come up with a better one.

I used to haunt www.doityourself.com One of the points that I regularly tried to hammer home was: Electricity is powerful and dangerous. A proper and safe electrical installation requires extensive knowledge. You can pay for that knowledge by taking the time to study, or by paying a professional to simply do the work. There is absolutely _no way_ that an online site can tell you everything that you need to know, because there is no way that we can answer the questions that you don't even know to ask. So study the books, get proper permits and inspections, and be willing to say 'no, too much, time for professional help'.

-Jon

I registered for the site just for this wiki. I have been posting as 130.160.45.52. Anyway just thought yall might like to know.

The article also fails to cover load calcs, and why you may or may not even need a 200A service.

I admire all of you, but I have 30 other things on my to-do list before I can police the internet.

Dave

How many violations can we name on just that step? Obvious ones: Stealing power (no meter), no OCPD.

Anyone that would even consider doing that has no business being anywhere near electrical wiring, IMO. If you need temporary power, rent a generator!

In general, if you need that level of detail, you are not qualified to do something like this. It's sort of like taking your first flying lesson in a 747 jumbo jet ... by yourself, with only instructions you got from the web to tell you what to do.

And having that lesson begin on final approach with 30 MPH crosswinds. No room for error.