so what is the problem with using acorns to connect the g.e.c. to the ufer in a garage wall?

Perhaps the listing thing rears its ugly head?

What would be listed for rebar?

Only more Q's from me...

from the hip~

"continuous"

Does the Ufer system come to the outside world with a smooth grounding rod,if so I believe that the acorn connector is OK.
Whenever we start new construction ,I tie into the footing rebar ,a 5/8in grounding rod and put a right angle bend so that it comes out of the foundation wall near the meter socket at grade level.
Chris

Connection to E.G.C. To a ufer system A burndy or other brands of split-bolt cablewire connectors are aproved for the connection to E.G.E. also you can cadweld.
But the best way to install a ufer is to install 20ft of #4 bare cu.at the bottom of the footing use tie wire to make contact with the rebar leave enough slack to allow you to make a connection to out of the concret cement wall.

if i remember right, inspectors have told me they arent listed for using the acorns on #4 spiral ribbed rebar ufers, but are ok on ½ in. ground rods, but i'm not sure, all i know is what i read on them, that tagged clamps can be direct buried or encased in crete per labels.

chris, sounds like a good system, but i dont think a Ufer is supposed to be exposed to any weather is it? by definition the ufer is a #4 reinforcement-bar encased in concrete. if you bend rebar out of the foundation outdoors arent you worried that the weather will rust it out eventually? maybe i didnt understand.

edmat, i like the 20' copper too, but i always worry that it will get damaged between exiting the foundation and landing on the grounding bus

Burdy and others make rebar to wire clamps that are certified for concrete and/or direct burial. They come a variety of sizes, #4 wire to 1/2 rebar were not too expensive. I use these item on UFER's and pool grounding and bonding. Easier than an acorn clamp and no grief from the inspectors.

Cindy,
The connection to the outside world is an 8ft ,5/8in smooth ground rod that is tied into the footing rebar(Ufer system).It is bent at 90deg and comes through the foundation wall(Wall,mono slab,or stem wall) at grade level and ties into the EGC(#4 bare Cu) with an acorn clamp near the meter socket.
Chris

Chris, how do you tie the ground rod to the rebar?

I also tiewire #4 to the rebar at the bottom of the footing at least 20ft in length. I leave enough slack and bring it up past grade level outside of foundation, so it does not get buried during back fill. I bring it into the main disconnect when i run my direct bury service conductors.

Stamcon,
I use about 6 to 8 tie wires,the same ones that are used to tie the footing rebar together.
Chris

Chris, inspectors have never complained about this? Code states the electrode to be at least 20' of ½" minimum rebar or at least 20' of not smaller than #4 copper. There have been several posts lately, regarding
what "listed" clamps for UFER installations exist and tie wiring a ground rod to the rebar seems to me to be a non acceptable(listed) method. Just curious......

Stamcon,
The footing rebar is at least 150 linear feet encased in concrete and is tied together with steel wire ties.The 5/8in,8ft right angle ground rod(electrode) is laid in the footing trench before the footings are poured and is likewise tied to the footing rebar by steel wire ties about every 18 inches.There is another 8ft ground rod (electrode) that is driven into the ground near the meter socket and the Ufer grounding system(concrete encosed electrode).All of this is hooked together with a continuous #4 bare Cu starting at the meter socket and ending at the driven ground rod(using acorn connectors).
The inspectors inspect before the footings are poured and at final.These guys are city inspectors,electrical only.
If there is a violation(NEC) with this method please let me know because we are starting some new construction and we want to get it right and make it safe.
Chris

Chris, my concern is that "tie wire" is not listed for bonding electrodes together and I don't see how it is a stable method for creating continuity.

Stamcon,
250-50(NEC 1999) allows the bonding of rebar by means of steel tie wires,therfore I would guess that the bonding of the ground rod to the rebar could be done with steel wire ties encased in concrete.
Chris

http://www.reos-enterprises.com/ground_rod_clamp1.htm

Look at this site for some information

Joe, I see no product, except exothermic welding, that would be for connecting to rebar. Am I missing something?

All of our concrete encased electrodes consist of a GEC sized Cu with >20' encased. Rebar is not acceptable here in SoCA.
Acorns have been accepted for tying the Cu to ground rods, etc. although there must be access to them after the installation, unless "DB" listed, in which case they can be buried. We usually use exothermic welding to attach them to other parts of the electrode system.
To use tie wire to tie them together would undoubtedly get us a correction notice.

Look again, you missed a lot ---- and why didn't you search while you were there?

Exothermic welding must be done properly.

I favor the Burndy fittings instead.

There is a company called Greaves Corporation that makes a UL listed clamp for copper to rebar.

Also, from the UL White Book, the listing for direct burial also includes concrete encasement.

Tom

Burndy, T&B and Penn-Union all make absolutely bulletproof hydraulic-comression grounding connectors. Depending on season, their nonexothermicity may not satisly the pyromania in some. {Not me!}

Just my two cents but here in NJ the rebar has to stay in the footing otherwise it is not rebar anymore. The building AHJ's will fail contractors for leaving rebar stickout of the ground.

Harold, rebar used as "reinforcing steel" needs to stay encased in concrete, but a separate piece of rebar used as the "UFER", can exit the foundation for wire attachment.
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Joe, isn't that a picture of an acorn, which is not listed for wire to rebar attachment?
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Tom, I see Greaves makes a "Jones Bond" fitting, for a wire to rebar clamped connection.