Hello,
Here in oregon the electrical apprenticeship is going to open up again for applications so i will be applying on may 14th with IBEW local 48 in portland. I have already talked to some of the higher ups in the local about the application process, currently i am a carpenter doing drywall, metal stud framing ect., the guy i talked to the other day from the local told me that from my construction experience i have that should be a plus for me as far as working with tools and the ability to learn things, he said i sound like im a pretty good candidate> My main question is how hard is the math and reading test you take? I know it will have algebra, how in depth in algebra are we talking just like first year algebra questions? I had about 3 years of algebra years ago, i have a neighbor that is pretty good with algebra and is going to give me a refresher course to wake my brain up LOL, so what thins should i really be studying as far as the algebra goes? i'm not worried about the oral interview, i just want to do really well on the math part if i can do that i feel i will be in great shape as far as being placed high on the list hopefully. thanks for any help you guys can give me.
I have no clue about an IBEW test but I can't see the Math being too in depth. I got thru night classes at my local Tech school without doing any math past Algebra 1. You'll need to be able to manipulate an equation with 1 unknown. Not that hard. My 2 cents for whatever its worth:)
Considering the unions have been losing market share for years they are not as picky as you might think. The union country club mentality is long gone, and has been replaced with a more accepting lets fill the ranks mentality. If you are clean, can read, have some math skills (pre-algebra preferred, but not required), and the right attitude, there shouldn’t be any problems getting you into the program.
Believe me, just being clean, having the right attitude, showing up every day, and on time is a very big deal, the math skills come second. The local I use has a math class just for guys that need a little help with their math skills.
This is just my observations based on the locals in the Texas area.
If you are clean, can read, have some math skills (pre-algebra preferred, but not required),
The biggest reason that people do not finish our apprentice program is because they can't do the math in the lessons. We require at least one year of HS algebra with a minimum grade of C to get into the program and we run a math review class before starting the first year lessons. We have found that a large percentage of those who do not have a passing grade on the test at the end of the math review class cannot maintain the required scores on the lesson tests.
There is not a lot on math on our pre-test.
Don
Sounds like you have a better labor pool up there, do you actively recruit or do they come knocking on your door? How many of them actually have the math prerequisite?
The reason I ask is we very actively recruit and are always on the look out for young men ready to start a career, but just can seem to fill our ranks.
Algebra and trigonometry at a grade 11 level should get you through. there is a lot of simpler algebra like in Ohms law calcs to slightly more complex for power factor. Trigonometry comes in for phasers and bending pipe too
Just to throw my 2 cents worth in on this subject. Math is important, but be realistic. You are not trying to do rocket science. The ability to solve basic equations is necessary, but not mandatory. There are a lot of potential apprentices out there that fail the test given them for the apprenticeship program. They failed, not because they didn't know math, they failed for the same reason a lot of people do, they just lock up in a testing situation. I have worked a few of them in my crews over the years. Maybe they can't take a test, or even do calculations, but when they went to the field, they were just like a fish in water. They took off with it and did just as well, if not better that some of the "formal apprentices" I have seen.
ITO hit the nail on the head. Clean, dependable, and having the right attitude is more important than " does this person know "Ohm's Law". Everything else can, and will come in time.
I personally have been in this trade since 1968, have never taken algebra, never been to apprencticeship school, but yet just by working in the field around a lot of experienced people, their knowledge rubbed off on me. In 1986 I passed my State Master's exam and have held the license ever since then. In 1988 I had a chance to go into engineering and took the leap. I am now approachin my 20 year date in engineering, with an international company. My opinions and knowlege are respected. This was all done with no formal apprenticeship or math education.
What I am saying is..... go for the apprenticeship training... it is worth it. If you don't get in, don't worry, if you have the drive and the desire, you can do anything you want, including being an electrician.
ITO,
How many of them actually have the math prerequisite?
It is a requirement. If they don't have it, their application is not accepted.
do you actively recruit or do they come knocking on your door?
We usually get 7 to 10 applicants for every open position. We do some low level recruiting at school career days.
Wow, what a different market you live in, it must be nice.
The local here is lucky to get one qualified applicant and the contractors do most of the recruiting; we find them and send them in to get organized. Some of us even run our own code study and math classes to help out the intermediate journeymen, and other young men that have potential.
I remember when it was a country club and you had to know somebody to get in, but it seems like most young men are not interested in construction any more. The plumbers definitely have it worse; it’s not unusual to see whole plumbing crews with no one under 40 years old.
Just something to think about, the market may be working for you now, but one day the same people who you might think unqualified now, could look pretty good if the labor market changes for you.
When I was young man they union turned me away, now the count on me for work…its funny how things work out sometimes.
Thanks for all the input guys, i really appreciate it alot. Like i said i have a few years as an apprentice carpenter so that looks real good when i go in on may 14th to fill out my app for the electrical apprenticeship, i know how to work hard, use power tools, read a tape and have done well in all my carpenter apprenticeship classes and have a good head on my shoulders, maybe i'm stressing too much about the aptitude test, but i want to get in real bad, i feel the test is my only hurdle to be placed high on the list, so i need a great score.
Good luck.
The reading is straight forward. Read the whole section first, then look at the questions. The questions from the selected reading are usually about details. Just try to remember where information is in the reading that way you can refer back when you answer the questions. I can tell from your post that you shouldn't have too much trouble from the reading portion.
The math is a little more difficult. Besure to know fundamentals like substitution and transposition. Refresh on graphic equations, especially the linear ones. There are only a couple parabolic ones. The questions that threw me for a loop were the ones that asked: 1, 17, 22, 34, which number comes next? That wasn't a real example so don't try and figure it out, but I tried to make it too complicated and the other guys who figured it said it was simple addition.
The real distinction is made in the interview. Dress nice, not like a douchebag, that is button-up shirt, slacks, belt, and decent shoes, shaved, haircut, you get the idea. Since you are already a union carpenter, you are probably made. But, take pictures of your best work and bring them in a folder along with a few other official looking items so they have something to look through at the interview. There are three questions they ask everyone, its been along time so I'll paraphrase: What are 3 qualities that make a good electrician? I say Quantity, Quality, and Attitude. Why should we accept you? I say because I will keep applying until you do. And there's one more but I forget it. The number one quality they are looking for is confidence.
Introduce yourself, common courtesy, etc.
The tests are just to screen-out, the real list is made off the interview.
One of the best electricians I ever worked for never even went to high school but could do trigonometry in his head. I've had nothing but the highest respect for hillbillies ever since. I am glad you are applying, us electricians have got to stick together.
ITO,
Just something to think about, the market may be working for you now, but one day the same people who you might think unqualified now, could look pretty good if the labor market changes for you.
I don't think so. As the labor market gets tighter as is will do, then the wages go up to get the required people. If the wages are high enough you will get qualified people. Our JWs get %36.50 on the check and almost $15 an hour into the pension funds and another $9 for health insurance.
One issue we do have is that the school counselors do not like to refer qualified people to the trades even though our journeymen make more than many college graduates and did not spend $100k to get a degree, and you can't export construction jobs to India.
Our work is getting more technical by the day and cannot be done with unqualified people.
By all means brush up on your algebra. If it's been awhile since you had any formal classes it may would help you to go to Powell's (or any good book store) and get one of the books designed specifically to help with math testing. You absolutely want to score as high as you can on all the parts of the test because they take the top test scores and interview those people. Make sure you bring everything they require to the application process (transcripts, etc.) I've been told office staff mark your application if you weren't even bright enough to have your stuff together for that part. The interview is a very important part of the process for you, a little scary but if you can think on your feet you'll be alright. They usually interview in five person teams, these people are typically shop owners, estimators, and school instructors. Some of these people are a little harsh and some are just people. When I did my second interview (inside wireman) they didn't ask any questions at all, you walk into the room - sit at a table - they told me to read the piece of paper in front of me and respond. I think it said something like "why should we pick you, blah, blah, blah". Point is, you better have something to say, because when you are done the interview is done. At the time all interviews were 5 minutes max. Good Luck and hope to see you on the job in Local 48
I did the SBCCI, ICBO and IAEI inspector and plan examiner tests and I am not sure any of ther math could really be called "algebra". Certainly there were formulas to solve but you are not making new formulas from raw data. If you can plug the numbers in the box and do the arithmetic you are good to go.
Trig is also used but you are still just doing arithmetic on a fixed formula.