Does changing the breaker constitute " working on the circuit" ? i.e. does a panel change (only) require AFCI's for bedrooms ?

That is going to be a local call at plan review time.

Gfretwell; way past planning. the ? relates to a legal matter. IS it code or not ?

Derater:
In NJ, this may be classified as a 'repair' and not require a permit or insp.
NJ does not require AFCI protection, as it was amended in the UCC.
Probably a local/area clarification.
Where are you??
John

I'm in Cent Pa. A 'home inspector' is contending that changing out the panel requires installing AFCI's. I've never heard of such a thing.

What was there previously, breakers or fuses? Were any circuits added?

The 2005 code requires AFCI protection of the branch circuit supplying all 120 volt 15 and 20 amp outlets INSTALLED in bedrooms of dwellings. A simple panel replacement usually does not involve any installation of new 120 volt outlets in bedrooms of dwellings, so therefore a careful read of the code section requiring afci protection will highlight the fact that "home inspectors" are generally as far off as my spelling seems to always be.

I assume it is universal but any permit pulled in Lee County Florida will go through plan review. It may just be a rubber stamp but it can also be kicked back if it does not include the things they require. That is where the decision would be made if a panel upgrade triggers AFCI installation.
Of course if this gets done without a permit I am not sure who would be there to tell you AFCIs would be required. It is certainly not going to be a home inspector. They are not legally able to cite code unless they are licensed CODE inspectors. Florida does not even recognize "home inspector" as a regulated industry and their "inspectors" are just informal advisors with an occupational license. A home inspector can advise a client of anything they want, down to their favorite color for the toilet but it has no force of law.

BTW if you want a laugh, go over the the NACHI BB and see the ridiculous things working home inspectors think are "code".
http://www.nachi.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Greg:
Yes, we 'review' each app, but plans are not required for 'minor' work (EC's)

"Home Inspectors" can only 'suggest', not require anything here. Most, if not all 'suggest' that a Lic Professional be consulted (CYA on that)

John

This was debated here, among the inspectors, and it was decided not to require such breakers for panel changes / service changes.

Indeed, they went even further, and decided not to ask for it when the actual circuit is worked on.

The reasoning was two-fold: first, until the AFCI requirement was introduced, bedroom circuits were almost never segregated from other circuits. Secondly, the lack of AFCI devices meant that the slightest work on a circuit that happened to serve a bedroom would require a service change as well.

How's that? Well, we have a lot of homes here still using fuse boxes - let alone breaker panels that are no longer available.

There is also the nightmare of shared neutrals in K&T installations. Someone wanting to add a receptacle, or even upgrade their service, ought not be required to re-wire the entire house.

In S.C. as long as no changes to the interior wiring is made you don't have to add AFCI'S or GFCI'S.

derater ---

"home inspectors" have a right to their opinions. Often times their clients insist on following those opinions or they walk away from the deal.

As to if AFCIs are required. It all depends on where you stand in the matter.

If the AHJ has had a policy that a panel change requires updating then it seems reasonable to require AFCIs here.

If I were paying for the panel replacement, I would expect AFCIs and GFCIs in the panel.

If I were being paid for the replacement, I would know the policy of the AHJ and follow it.

I'll second the post of not requiring the AFCI breakers for a panel change out. One breaker replaced, no permit required, whole panel replaced; permit & inspection required. Any addition to existing bedroon circuits or new would require AFCI's

This won't help you much, but Canadian rules - CEC 2006, as adopted, do require AFCI's on a total panel change out. AT least, that's what most of the Alberta AHJ's seem to demand. And I emphasize "most", because there is still a bit of confusion between the different AHJ's on exactly how to interpret the CEC. I've quoted the same code item to at least 5 different Inspectors now and the consensus is still split 2 to 3 on what is required.

The easiest thing we have done is just quote the customer on AFCI's ( and GFCI's as well) before we do the reno and just put them in when we change the panel. I know it's a few bucks more on the quote - maybe $200.00 to $500.00, but it sure saves a lot of hassle later on at Inspection time, and in the ultimate end, if some fool partially shorts out the good old bedroom extension cord to the clock radio, at least it's saved their life and --- drum roll---- I get a chargeable callback when the beast downstairs decides it's gonna keep tripping.

C-H panel and you could AFCI any circuit you want - 3-wire circuits too.

But no, IMO you shouldn't be required to do so for a panel change, or any other repair work.

I'll also step out to say that third party 'Home Inpectors' for Real Estate sales are the biggest ruse short of Real Estate Agents themselves. There should be laws against these people, or laws to hold them to a much higher set of standards. They often do more harm than good by misinforming people about what is on thier little check-lists, and often miss, or have no idea about what is not on the check-list. After all, there are laws in just about every state concerning incompetant or unscupulous contractors. I think they often cause either false senses of security, or unnessesary law suits or repairs - all for a rubber stamp.