i am bidding for a job on a newly constructed sun room to install rec. and a ceiling fan. the walls of the room are aluminum skin with styrofoam insulation in the middle. the manufacture doesn't have any info on electrical systems and just has a 1" X 1" raceway on the bottom. i don't want to use wire mold or pipe in a home so how would you do it?

falcon,
Welcome to the forum.I've tried to add a fan to a sunroom such as you describe.Unless the manufacture builds a wire chase or installs a conduit it is next to impossible to do it with concealed wiring.Wire mold or exposed conduit is the only other options.

GO TO YOUR LOCAL MOBILE HOME DEAL OR MANUFACTURED HOME DEALER. THEY SELL ALL INCLUSIVE BOXES THAT INCLUDE THE OUTLET. IT WORKS WITH OUR INSPECTOR.

I have seen where electricians try to run wire inside of the metal struts of the sun room. I would fail that job unless the contractor can get me a letter from the manufacture, stating that it is a listed wireway. You might be able to get it and maybe not. I have also seen some sun rooms with a built-in wireway that is listed for a wire. Check with the manufacture of the sun room and the local inspector to be sure.

Sunrooms S**k...
1. Is it on a slab or raised deck?
2. Is it going to be inspected? if so run...
3. If it is a wood deck your o.k. otherwise bring in the wiremold...
I just got rid of a sunroom contractor. there are few options that are legal to perform.these rooms are very labor intense to satisfy the N.E.C. However if there is wood flooring you can pop up at each receptacle to a surface mounted box (T11 with duplex receptacle and plastic plate) doesnt look that bad. for the ceiling fixture or fan there is usually a header in the insulated sunrooms that the contractor can leave you a chanel to run your 3 wire...
Good Luck...

falcon,

Welcome to the Forum. Just curious, are you wiring the sun room like any habitable room of the house?

I'm curious about hearing opinions on whether these rooms must be wired as any other room in the house. And why, or why not?

Bill

I don't know if they are still made, or if they would help in your situation, but here goes...

When I was but a wee lad, my dad installed two ceiling fans in our house. They plugged into an outlet and had an inline switch. Our installation included a chain to form a swag.

Perhaps, as long as your sunroom can support the weight of the fan, a fan such as this would be easier to install than a hard-wired fan.

Bill,

If the "sun" room has heat and can be used in all four seasons, then I would expected it to be wired as per code. It is a "habitable room." If it is only a 3 season room, then I would think that the room might not have to meet the code. It would be more like a Deck or Porch. What do you think?

Now there's an idea...."swag" a ceiling fan!
The "orange apron" store sells fans & swag kits. (Better get a "good" hook)
Now, if you get a fan with a remote control, you don't need that pesky "in-line" switch.
Let's see.....
Fan is UL listed.
"Swag Kit" is UL Labeled. (Angelo Products)
Going to have to by one to check the directions; if it's for a "fixture" only, or is a fan mentioned.
Hook???? (Machine thread 3/8" dia)

What do you guys think?????

John

Harold,
I've had this question in the past where a piece of Electric Heat was added to a "sun room" and if it had to meet code as far as spacing of Receptacles etc., or could you just put in what the customer wanted.

My example was constructed on top of an existing wooden deck and there was still a door separating this room from the interior of the house. My thoughts were as follows;

For this room to be a part of the house, as per Building Code, would'nt it have to have footings below it? And since the exterior of the house has not been really penetrated (it still has an exterior-type door and insulated walls) is it really a part of the house?

Bill

so do we base the definition of 'habitable' on heated or foundation?

consideration for example could be unfinished cellar's, heated garages, homes on piers, homes made of hay bales....


[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 10-16-2002).]

Is there some areas that do not require a heating system, such as the the southern tips of some states?

I would like to know the actual ( all building codes ) definition of a habital room.

To slight on doing adequate electrical in a sun room, and then install cord and plug electric heaters into the in-adequate power source(s) seems to be a 'vicious circle'.

Why can't the ( sun room ) manufactures provide molding etc. suitable for wiring methods? (even the support of decorative wiring methods).

Appearance must be the FACTOR, not ' is it safe ' , but then see 90.1(B).

GWZ,

Habitable space;
IBC/IRC 2000-"A space in abuilding for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces."
UBC 1997 - "Habitable space (room) is a space in a structure for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet compartments,closets, halls, storage or utility space, and similar areas, are not considered habitable space."

Bob,

I notice that the definitions contain the words "in a Building". Would my sunroom example be considered as being in the building?

Bill

So, then, Sun Rooms are not habitable rooms.

Why bother to heat the Bathroom in northern States per the definition ?

IRC Building- Building shall mean any one and two family dwelling or portion thereof, including townhouses, that is used, or designed or intended to be used for human habitation, for living, sleeping, cooking, eating purposes, or any combination thereof, and SHALL INCLUDE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES THERETO.
IBC and UBC - Any structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use or occupancy.
So under any of the codes, I would have to say that the sunroom would be a building with habitable space if it's freestanding and a part of a building with habitable space if it's attached. Anyway, that's how I read it, but I am not an expert by any means.
Also, you need to determine which code is adopted in your area and if there are any local changes to the code.
Of course, you could hang a closet rod all the way across and call it a closet, or put a toilet in it and have a wonderful view of the area while doing your business. At least it'll get the neighbors talking.
Bob

How bout' forgetting about using Wiremold for the fan and wire it like this? https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000534.html

210.52(A) requires sunrooms to be wired same as other rooms in the dwelling

When I had my sun room installed I checked with my AHJ (county.) The split for them on wiring per NEC "room" requirements was if the room was heated by the same source as the rest of the home. In my case it was not just for that reason. Two 15kw fan forced wall heaters work just fine.

[This message has been edited by kentvw (edited 11-21-2004).]

I did a lot of patio rooms and sun rooms as a teenager working for my dad. The rooms should come with vertical raceways for outlets and switches and have connecting raceways for running your wires. UL approval on the raceways used to be a big issue, but all the manufactures now have UL stickers everywhere, so you can just use #12 and 14 THHN in the raceways. If the owner is too cheap to have the manufacture supply raceways, then they are too cheap to have you install electrical.

The curved metal that is the ceiling support is not UL approved as a raceway so you have to use romex. I would use a hole saw to drill into that cavity from the UL raceway and use romex running up to the fan. I would use a pancake box mounted to the metal structure and run lags from the fan all the way into the metal stucture so that I wouldn't need a fan rated box and it gave a very solid install.

Sun Rooms are actually easier to do than Patio Rooms. Patio rooms are a bit trickier to install a fan into without penetrating the roof, but it can be done and should so you don't have to worry about leakage.