Commercial Quote - ECN Electrical Forums

Hoping to get some general ideas here so that I don't completely screw myself.

I got a request for quotation today for an Interior Fit-Up - its a store space in a new Mall here in Columbus. I haven't got specs or plans yet but what I do know is that its a two story (above grade) building at about 1,423 sq ft. The abbreviated scope basically says that what's there is going to be demo'd and a new interior will be constructed. So I figure this will be like new work but I am sure materials are going to be much more expensive being a commercial job.

Anyone have any ballpark ideas as to what my bid should be looking like by the time I'm done adding it up (and by ballpark I don't mean Yankee Stadium [Linked Image]

?

Prish-ee-ate it

Happi_man,
Like to help but too many unknowns here. Is the service or sub-feed existing? What type of light fixtures will be installed? How many devices? (plugs, switches) Is this a large retail chain going in? (a number of them will supply there own fixtures) Are you required to install wiring for a sound system or sensormatic? Do the plans call for MC, EMT or...?
This is what I would call a tennant improvement. Which brings me to my next important question from past experience. Is the contractor a local who pays on time? Or, some "Fast talkin Hotshot" who travels all over the country and takes over 90 days to pay? Be careful if this is the case. The tennant in the store is usually little help when trying to collect from the contractor whom he already paid.
I have seen too many subs get burned by these guys.
Wirewiz

Well the contractor is "NBC General Contractors, Inc" - ring a bell with anyone?

They are located in MN and the job is in OH...hmmm - is that a red flag?

Be sure to read your specs. Some I have read called for almost brand new Square D bolt on panels to be replaced and other demo work.

Also the mall may have a say when you can make noise and cut concrete and the like. This may require after normal hours to do.

Some questions to find out: Who is responsible for cleanup and disposal? Do you have a storage area on site? What is the schedule? Is it reasonable? Who will have the extra wires for the lay-ins?

Bid smarter, not harder.

Any option (or can you write a 'rider' or whatever it might be called) to have the customer who has hired the GC to be next in line to pay in the *unlikely* event that the GC doesn't pay or doesn't pay within the time specified (90 days or less, I'm assuming).

Also, any chance for mention of incentives (such as increase in payment for early completion)? I'm guessing that if any incentive is even contemplated, the GC would be running out the door with it before you could blink so maybe a notation that if one is paid pertinent to electrical work, it gets shared with the right folks (namely, you).

Be sure to go back and find some of the posts regarding contracts and agreements that were posted earlier. To do this, either do a search or go up to the "Location" line (where the http:// address is and after it says "DaysPrune=100" change it to something further back like 200 days.

Happi-man:
To stay happy, see if anyone has/had a business relationship with the GC & cull payment info from that.

Is the job under an AIA contract?? If so, you have "progress payments", that are based on the work that you have completed to the billing date.
In other words, if you have 45% of the work completed on Friday xx/xx/xx you fill out the AIA forms requesting 45% of your bid price, minus a retention of 10%. This type work usually saves you headaches.

If the GC has a questionable track record, then by all means be careful.

I've been pretty fortunate, and have long term relationships with most of our GC's. Recently took a job from a design firm in MD that was doing work here in NJ. Did the job, (T&M), sent the Invoice, and got a check in 7 days. (WOW)

Pricing is "tough" without knowing what the spec is, fixtures, etc. 1400+/- SF can either be a vanilla box (<$4500) or a boutique that could be >$15K.

If you need assistance, E-mail me if you want
HotLine1
John

All I can say is what others have already said. Check out the GC! They're probably just fine, but still check them out, just ask if they've dealt with any other contractors local to your area (HVAC, Plumbing, etc.) They should not get offended and be glad to help you check them out, if they balk or refuse, then I would'nt bid. One way to make sure you'll eventually get paid is to make sure they have a payment bond for the job, if it's a chain store, they probably will. Good Luck.

Looks like you need my estimating spreadsheet. If you are interested, hit me with an e-mail. I'll send you the spreadsheet, and a sample estimate.

"Bid" there done that,
Doc

Read, read, and read the contract documents.
I'm not sure if the lien laws are much the same in your area, but here (CA) the chain of payment ends up with the property owner responsible in the end. Mall owners don't want to be caught holding the bag for some flaky GC, so your chances are very good for payment.
Normally, a chain store will be supplying fixtures themselves. See if you can find an existing store that you can take a look at beforehand. Some of the fixtures/items are "trick", and take lots of time to install, or need to go in at a specific stage of work. Make sure you have a schedule showing delivery dates.
Exclude items that don't directly apply to your work, such as concrete coring, sawcutting, patching (hence you get stuck with such things as x-raying the floor), etc.
Fixture support wires should be installed by ceiling contractor.
Make sure the plans are applicable to your area. Many nationwide chains issue "generic" plans, or are done by someone 1500 mi. away that doesn't understand your local needs.
Good Luck
S

electure is correct on every point. I've been out of the estimating loop for a few months, and I've forgotten about all the "national chain" quirks. If you can find out who the fixture supplier is, and call them, they will sometimes tell you over the phone an approximate value of the fixture package. Gear is easy, call your local supplier, and get him to give you a "ballpark" price over the phone. If you have done a job of this size before, look at your past labor records to get a "ballpark" labor estimate. All the misc. materials, look at a past project.
Another thing to keep in mind, the mall may have a set of spec's that are more strict than the plans. You must check with the building management company, and ask to see their building standards. A quick scan will tell you things like MC or BX is acceptable, min. conduit size, steel or die cast fittings, device grade and min. amperage, cast iron, sheet metal, or pvc floor boxes, fire stopping, etc.
You could possibly be required to tie into an existing fire alarm system. Some systems are compatable, but others aren't.
Check on working hours. Some places won't let you make noise during certain time periods.
As electure said, I always exclude saw cutting, concrete removal and replacement. I always exclude "form concrete", equipment pads, and pole bases.
We would core our own holes, the catch there is if they have a building engineer. Sometimes they want the engineer to check the effects of coring holes on floors above the ground.

Regards,
Doc

[This message has been edited by The Watt Doctor (edited 08-08-2002).]

Happi, be carefull as others have said, and in addition to that, never figure a demoed building is like new construction.

As far as estimating the project, you must have a complete scope of the work, specs, drawings, and special systems. Otherwise you are only coming up with a budget number. Make this clear to whoever is asking for you to speculate the project.

Take exception to any unclear items if you can not get answers before bid time. This doesn't relieve you of your responsibility of all contract documents, but will red flag items that you might need to ask for a change order for.

One bad job takes a long time to recover from.

Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 08-08-2002).]

Running the risk of repeating the previous posts': Unless this is a 24/7 mall they likely will require off hours. I did two mall stores last year and I had to bid for not only the off hours (11:00 pm/7:00 Am) but being a small company i had to compincate for lost time for the next day due to sleep time.As for comparing resedential qoutes to commercial quotes they are gennerally night and day.Commercial specs. are more precise; conduit size, wire size, circuit labeling, extra spare j/b's for future use exc. And they hold you to it.
It is nearly impossble to quote a commercial job, without specs. as opposed to a residential job were you atleast know
beforehand the material requirements.And as stated earlier, if you have to drill concrete make sure the x-raying has been done,the last thing you want to do is hit a stress cable.I have been there and done that...

Get an estimating program
And don’t forget to add all O&P
Oh yeah I am now 30 and been self employed for 4 years and I now carry Tums in the truck