How many here are first generation Electricians? The reason that I ask is that I just read the post on the "Younger Generation" not wanting to learn the trade, just wanting to get the license and make the big money...it bugged me.

I think that there is a big difference between generations and the way that the trades are looked upon...

I am wondering how many of the "Younger Generation" are trying to survive on an apprentice wage while on his or her half hour lunch break, reads about a 23 year old college drop-out who just made 40 million dollars selling the rights to his file sharing program.

Our society has changed its views of the trades from what used to be very respectable careers to almost looking upon them as a cop-out...almost like joining the military.

We are told that if you don't have at least a four year degree you are going to make it in life...you end up learning a trade...

So I ask, how many of you were in the military...how many of you went to a vocational school for high school? How many of you have kids that you are trying to put through college because you want them to "do better than I did"?

I am a member of the "Younger Generation" when it comes to this message board and I would love to be a license holder...more money in the pocket to make things easier at home...what's wrong with that?

The code classes are supposed to get you ready for the tests...this message board is for those that want to excel in the field...teach the tests and let them get there licenses...let them earn a living...but there are still going to be those that will ask the How's and the Why's...just because they want to be proud of the title that they hold...Licensed Electrician

Humbly and with the utmost respect,

2E1X4

Hold on there slick. Most members of this forum are pretty danged proud of what we are. What we are are electricians of one sort or another from across a broad spectrum of the trade.
I have been an electrician for over 30 years, and wired everything from houses (though not many) to the control rooms of some pretty large power generation facilities and made most of the stops in between.

So don't come off like our attitude is that tradesmen ain't squat.

I come from a family of tradesmen as well, though not electrical so that 'tude don't fly here.

Most of us have a similar attitude for our children, if they want to go to college, we'll assist, if they want to work in the trades, we'll assist, your life choice should have a large input from you.

As for time spent in school, lemme see, 2 nights a week, 3 hours a night, for 4 years, THEN I got to take a year long motor course, HV splicing, A/C, also at night.

But you're hinting that I'm uneducated?????????

I notice you're a computer programmer..........and then an electrical apprentice. Well, I'm sure Bill Gates has a web site, it's just down to the left.

So I ask, how many of you were in the military...12 yrs. E-5, MOS 51R Interior Electrician.

right on George...

Methinks you've heard the voice of frustration here,2E1X4 .
The more experienced members of the trade are confronted by instant gratification sought by today's apprenticeships focus on licensure, and/or the aftermarket courses that would gear all to this end.

The reality is a lifelong dedication as a student of the code is necessary, as this is an evolving 'living' document.

A license may be a meal ticket, yet is far from a know all end all....


I did read, althought i cannot seem to find it (messy desk here) about how some electrical orginizaton is trying to reach high school councilors across the nation.
Apparently we are viewed as being down there with Norton the sewer worker.
I beg to differ...
As a matter of fact, one can get fairly intense in the general trade,not to mention the specialized avenues avaiable.

True, said social stigmatizim exists, probably widening the gap bettween white & blue collars of late....

but you tell me..... my Bro whom i was originally apprenticed to is raking in $47.50 per hr,( working for others) full bennies (a rubinski too)

I guess a little clarification is needed...but I think I got Georges attention...are you mad...good, 'cause so am I...

My post was not intended to come across as having an attitude…just a little frustration…

George, I hate to point this out…but I was complimenting the members of this forum, not “Hinting at uneducated”. I am saying that I don’t like the stigma that has fallen on the trades since my father started into the plumbing trade over 40 years ago.

I respect all trades…as we all have to do our part…that’s what a society is…and this group of professionals proves that there is a desire to continue the educational process and better the work that we perform.

Simply put…society has lessened the importance of the tradesmen from being respectable to a cop out. I don’t like it but it is true. What I didn’t like was the overall generalization that all of the “Younger Generation” want to have the license and don’t really care about the theory…it just isn’t true…I think I can speak for a lot of “US” in saying that the expectations might be a little different than what they used to be…and we feel it and try to deal…everything is quicker in today’s society…except the time that it takes to get the license and earn a “respectable” income…

As for me…Went to a military high school, joined the Air Force – 2E1X4 (13 month tech school, 9 hours a day, five days a week, covering electronics, electrical theory, security, television, phone systems, photo principles…you get the picture). I enjoy computers a lot and made a go at it…couldn’t survive…didn’t have the piece of paper…

Now I am back into what I was trained in…and I love it….just don’t like being told that I want it now and don’t deserve it…I am here…reading and commenting…just like the rest here and don’t like to be told that “My” generation is just going through the motions…and doesn’t really care about the importance of the trade…and the history. I think if you give us time …and a little credit for defying the stigmas…we will show you that we can do the work…hopefully to the same quality and standards that have been set by our brothers and sisters in the trade…and make the stigma go away…

“Electrons make the world go ‘round”

As always…with the utmost respect…

2E1X4

I have an associate degree in industrial electrical maintenance, do i know everything no and the guy that says he does is lying. i am proud of what i do and love to go to work everyday. iam the first person in my family to graduate high school let alone college. my dad and grandfather both work for GM however that was back in a time when you could get a job without an education and trust the company that you work for.

as for the younger generation no one wants to get there hands dirty but they want to make 100 grand a year no matter what they know. our society has become one based on what you have and how much you make. not being happy and spending time with your family. having a 300,000 house and a mercedes in the drive is what all these kids seem to want but they dont want to put in the time they think everyone owes them something. and there are alot of people who make more than most people could ever dream of for doing something they love and still bitch about it look at the baseball players

2E1X4,
I think you may have been referring to my post in another thread, where I said -

"I have been teaching apprentice electricans for 30 years and have noticed a very disturbing trend. Each year there seems to be fewer young people that are interested in learning how the system and equipment works."

Did you notice that I said fewer.

There are many excellent young apprentices, but I'll stick with my opinion that there are fewer than in years past.

Ed

If I misread your intent, mea culpa.

Lemme see, when I came in the trade, 4 years practical field experience....PERIOD for a journeymans license in the tri-state area where I work (VA, MD, DC).

Masters - you had to hold a journeymans card for 4 years, or 8 years trade experience (or 4 years trade experience + engineers degree).

Class A Va state masters - 8 years trade experience, letter from engineering firm stating that you have had 4 years working with design, letter from architect stating your design experience, letter from supply house stating your business expertise, letter from another master stating personal experience running work of OVER 1 million dollars. Letter from banker stating record. 16 hour masters test - not only CLOSED book code portion, but I had to calculate a hospital, a shopping mall, and a few dozen other minor type calcs. Had mine since 1981, at the time I was the youngest man to ever complete the requirements.

The District of Columbia had a law that required an engineer to have a master sign that his design was workable, an unlimited master of course.

Now in those days, (lemme put my teeth back in and adjust my glasses, sonny) the only test I was allowed to use a calculator in was the VA state Class A, and mine was the first group to do so. It was slide rule and pencil. I possess over 30 masters licenses in different counties and jurisdictions.

Now - 3 hour open book test. All jurisdictions.

In VA, a 3 hour test gets you the journeymans card, hold it one year and you can take the 3 hour masters test. I only know VA because I teach apprentices and try to keep up on it for them, not sure about the others as far as time goes, but the tests are the same because they are administered by a private testing company.

Kinda see why it looks as if the requirements may be slipping?

George,
i believe you've just reduced me to a yellow belt.....

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 08-05-2002).]

Lets see when I was 17 and a half I was on my way to Cuba in October 1962, with an MOS of 0300, basic rifleman. I hadnt realized that serving ones country had denegrated to a cop-out.
So I guess I almost copped-out and stayed in until 1967. When I got married and proceeded to have 5 kids, not all at once either, thats when I became a apprentice electrician about june '68, when I started in a Steel Mill. Like George night school and trying to raise a family.
I see the apprentices today and see some good ones and some who are only in it for what they can get out of it.
As far as I am conccerned I am in this trade because I dont love anything as much, and as Steve says, you have to be dedicated and a lifelong student of the trade because its constantly changing. What others perceive our trade to be ? I could care less, because when the power goes out, 'who they gonna call' You know who. the Electrician thats who .

-Mark-

First generation electrician, but I was mentored by a man that was father-like and ended up taking over much of his clientelle.

Plus I'm in the young side of things (36)... Since ECM said that the average EC was (about) 50 years old...

I've hit the gold mine in getting an apprentice (I think/hope). He's a hard working young man, looking for a better career option than lawn care, already studying the 99 NEC... So, there are some young'uns interested.

I can see the point that it seems that each generation wants more and more instant gratification, but I guess that comes with the increase in technology and luxeries of society.

Personally, I've learned more since I aquired my Masters than I have in all the years before...

My father was an electrician (Air Force 8+ years on generating stations for radar installations) and worked at the trade for a couple of years. Then entered a paper mill where I also worked for a while before going back to school at the ripe age of 35. I have always tried to maintain and enhance my skills in the various trades I have picked up over the years. I am considering going for the Masters exam sometime next year.

I cannot count the many times where I encountered a problem and solved it with a trick or tip that I learned from another "unrelated" trade. Some call it thinking out of the box, but I call it the difference between knowlege and wisdom. (usually the answer to that one is pain!)

My degree in engineering taught me how to find information and use it.
Life and it's experiences teaches me how to apply it.
The people I meet and interact with teach me what a gift life is and how important it is to have an open mind. Like a parachute, it is just a burden until when needed it is opened.

I'm a 33 year old first generation. I got started pulling wire for a summer job in High School. During college I did the same and after started my own construction company (boy did I have a lot to learn). A few years ago I decided to get back to my "roots" and convert my company to electric only.

I can say I learned more from taking an extension license prep test than I did on the job.

2E1X4,
I owe you an apology. I misread your intent, and did something uncharacteristic, and for that, I am sorry.

Just because of one "grumpy old man" don't let that keep you from the forum, nor from asking questions.

I've always been a proponent of the free speech aspect of this forum, you won't even find me blasting away at the obvious homeowner who asks completely inappropriate questions. (but just because I believe they have a right to do their own work does NOT mean I think they have a right to do it in their neighbors house either). Of course it is my right to NOT answer questions either.

Please forgive my rude and boorish behavior, join on in, I ain't always that way.

I'm not sure whether you'd class me a first generation or not.

I'm 36 and went into the telecomms & electronics field when I left school at 16. The "sparky" side of my work grew because in the places I've lived since people couldn't get anyone else to do a good job at a reasonable price.

But although my professional work started "only" 20 years ago, I've been interested in everything electrical/electronic since I started playing with batteries and bulbs when I was about 5. That's an interest I inherited from my father who had also developed a similar interest at an early age (his work was only very slightly related as he was a cost & quantity surveyor for a heating & ventilation company).

On the subject of younger people entering the trade, I recall when I started working for the phone co. in 1982. I was one of about a half dozen apprentice techs who started at the same time, and I was surprised at how most of them had almost nil electrical knowledge.

Maybe I was naive back then or maybe it was my childhood background, but I just assumed that anyone entering the telephone engineering field would have already had enough of an interest to have learned at least some basic theory.

I am a first generation electrical contractor too. Got into the trade helping my uncle back when I was 12. Never got those electrons out of my system.

Installed a 28kva three phase theatrical lighting system in my high school with the help of my best friend at age 15 (under the supervision of a licensed contractor whos kid went to school with us). He's now an electrical engineer.

In college I opened a commercial sound and lighting company doing installs in schools, churches, clubs and restaurants. Got into doing intelligent lighting (Martin, Lightwave Research) and had a good niche going but the travel was rough. Graduated college and realized it was easier to wire a whole house than rig a 800 pound speaker cluster in an 80 foot cathedral in a church.

Went to work with a local electrical company and did'nt learn much. Changed companys and learned what NOT to do to be successful. Went back to school and learned more in three months than I had in 8 years in the trade. I am a ball busting code stickler to work for and my employees and customers know it.

My grandfather started out as a carpenter on the railroad here in NJ. Then one day they asked for volunteers to work on some wiring for the train signals. He voluntered as stayed on as an electrician. My father worked for the railroad, but didn't do any electrical work. I started out doing alarm wiring in 1975, then moved to electrical work with a contractor. I have no military experience, other then I was going to Vietnam, when the war ended. In NJ you need at least 5 years in the field to take an 8 hour test. If you pass, you can get an electrical contractors lic. Once you have that and 5 years in your own business, you can take a test for an electrical inspectors lic. There are 3 parts for the inspectors lic. and if you pass the first 2, you gat an ICS lic. if you pass the third part and 10 years experience, you gat the HHS lic. You also need some college for those tests.

Caper

I'm a first generation sparky also. Started in this field in 1980, worked for a contractor, went to tech school. Put in the time, took the contractors test, passed & started my company. Continued at trade school & private instruction & took the inspectors tests (all 3 at once) got my ICS, Plan Review and HHS Inspectors Licenses.
Still contracting, crew of 5, commercial and site lighting.

BTW, I'm in New Jersey.

No, I'm not a college guy. HS and Vocational.
I guess I'm one of the "older folks" 54.

I'm satisfied with my life! I came a long way, not "rich", but comfortable!
HotLine1
John

Our country has changed alot in the past 50 years, even the past 25. We used to consider ourselves an industrialized nation. But the biggest chunk of our money isn't in industry anymore. We now sub that out to other countries who are just becoming "industurialized".

It's true that working in the trades isn't as respected as it was.

But that's not bad. Do what you do because you enjoy it and are good at it. Don't worry if it's a glamorous as the new hot jobs. The new hot jobs have a way of fading away and as the supply of tradesmen in any field goes down, the demand goes up and so does the going rate for that trade.

So hope that no one ever wants to be an electrician. Someday you may be the only one left. Imagine what you're going rate would be then.

My career started with a Christmas present when I was in Third Grade. My folks gave me a Gilbert Fun With Electricity set. There were other science and Erector sets, but I kept coming back to things electrical. I went through college right after high school, worked as an electrical apprentice in the summers to round out the theory of electrical engineering with hands on experience. Tried work as a EE but it didn't take. I've been a contractor for 24 years now. There's a curious mix of types in my family, but I'm the first electrician/EE.

Al

Well I am a first generation electrician myself. I did not like the trade at first but it grew on me really fast once I started learning how to do stuff. I did a 4 year apprenticeship and got my journeyman license and I am so glad I stayed in the trade. The electrical trade is a constant learning experiance and I love it.

maintenanceguy,
I agree with you. It really bothers me that "we" (some of us) let it get to us. I used too, and sometimes still do. I've worked in the nastiest ditches, smelliest chemical plants, loustest machine shops, and....and....on some of the nicest executive floors in downtown Houston, doing electrical work. I know that most of you can relate. I've had more fun in the worst conditions than the law should allow. Funny thing about those people working in the downtown office buildings (the ones who don't respect us)....most of them don't make as much money as we do. The problem isn't us.....it's their ignorance.
Hey, electricians out there.....keep your heads up....our true peers...the people who count....they respect us because they know the job we do. Hold on to that.

Standing Tall,
Doc

Hey Guys,

I've been reading and learning this forum for a while but now i guess it's time for me to join in. I am a third generation upcoming electrician/engineer. My grandfather started at the local PoCo, followed by my dad and uncle working industrial environments and small residential sidejobs and now me, who is 18 and learning everyday. I had the "i want better for you" discussion with my father because i decided i wanted to go headlong into being an electrician. i didn't want to be an engineer because the little sparky in me was saying "you're gonna be a pencil pusher." i came to realize that that was naive and that i didn't know any engineers to base that off of. anyway so i decided to give college a try since i did well in HS i've got a free ride through college and decided it was best to act on the oppurtunity.

I started with my dad when i was about 12 years old. He did residential side jobs and i was right ther with him, pulling wire installing switches and receptacles. At 14 dad got hurt (back trouble) and moved to the office and i got a job under a contractor doing residantial and commercial work. Currently i'm in college and working in the electrical dept. at home depot (ducks from flying objects). I'm constantly learning and am always a student of the code and will be till i stop breathing. i learn something new everyday. I get a lot of flack from older guys for being so young but knowing what i know but it doesn't bother me b/c i know where i'm headed and i know what i know so when people say no you can't i say yes i can, watch me.

Glad to be a part of the forum

Joel

Hi there guys,
just willing to ask a couple of questions
regarding training in the US, of electricians,
is there a system, where a young fella can
go straight from school, do a time-based
apprentice-ship of say 8000 hours, he/she,
does thier exams, in theory, this is backed up by practical knowledge built up during the
working day.
Over here guys, this is the way that things
happen.
But the sheer cost of training, in any types of
trades, has ruled out any young people,
taking this up.
They are all into IT and various other "easy"
occupations, trainees, are required to pay
for thier training.

Trumpy,
i would say the 'average' apprenticeship here is two nights a week in class, and working under a license days.

8000/J-man , 12000/Master exam eligibiliy.

I agree with the Doc 100% The Electrical trade has supported 4 generations before me! I am number 5 KEEP WALKIN TAll.
Wirewiz

[This message has been edited by wirewiz (edited 08-11-2002).]