ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
2017 NEC Changes
by HotLine1. 12/11/17 12:10 PM
Casino Wiring methods
by HotLine1. 12/09/17 10:44 AM
Ground wire Size to water Line.
by HotLine1. 12/05/17 12:11 PM
Flexible conduit to an outside Spa
by gfretwell. 12/05/17 12:28 AM
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by Vulsion. 11/30/17 06:37 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
243,013 Are you busy
179,407 Re: Forum
170,367 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 8 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#99771 - 09/04/06 10:32 PM Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,140
Estero,Fl,usa
314.23(E)&(F) says you can support enclosures from raceways and 352.12(B) referencing 352.10(H) says you can't support anything but conduit bodies from RNC. Can you support a swimming pool wet niche "J" box from RNC? How about a transformer?

I know we routinely OK the J box. Is it really a violation?


Greg Fretwell

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#99772 - 09/05/06 05:58 AM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
The specific rules always "trump" the general rules.
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 09-05-2006).]


Don(resqcapt19)

#99773 - 09/05/06 11:06 AM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?  
earlydean  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
No, you cannot support neither a deck box or a transformer with PVC conduit. 90.3 tells us that information in Chapters 1-4 apply generally, and Chapters 5-7 supplement or modify the general rules.
314.23(E)&(F) tells us we can support a splicing device with RMC or IMC conduit (the only 2 wiring methods that can be threaded wrenchtight).
352.10(H) allows conduit bodies containing splicing devices (wire-nuts).
Both transformers and deck boxes need to be listed (680.24) Nowhere in 680.24 does it allow the PVC conduit to support the deck box or transformer.

It really is a violation!


[This message has been edited by earlydean (edited 09-05-2006).]


Earl

#99774 - 09/05/06 01:37 PM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,140
Estero,Fl,usa
The PVC J boxes really do not have a place to provide additional support.
Usually they do just get stuck up on the stubs that come out of the ground. If the pool is built on a stem wall and the equipment is on the ground these can be on some pretty tall pipes. I have never liked it but it is SOP. The other day I had a fellow IAEI inspector say the same rule would allow a transformer if it was made of a suitable material with threaded hubs. I drew the line there. I see you agree with my original contention, that the J boxes were also illegal, although I don't know how else you would do it.
Mine are really supported by the RNC but I have a clamp within an inch of the J box and they are against the wall.


Greg Fretwell

#99775 - 09/05/06 02:39 PM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
There's some Listed equipment out there made by I think a company called "Thermcraft" and sold through T & B. The deck boxes are supported by an optional solid post or an optional bracket suport. They also are Listed for multiple lights with terminations for more than one fixture. I saw them when I was at the Jubilee in FL. Greg you might remember the booth where the guy was pushing their products.
Found a site that I was talking about: http://www.californiapoolsupply.net..._Fixture_Swimming_Pool_Ju_p/jbp57510.htm

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-05-2006).]


George Little

#99776 - 09/05/06 09:54 PM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,140
Estero,Fl,usa
Interesting George. The Thermocraft is the box we see but I never see the support hardware. Usually it is just a 1x3 PT scrap they find in the dumpster from the window framers and strapped to the raceways.

(Yeah I suppose they might bring a 1x3 but I doubt it)


Greg Fretwell


Member Spotlight
The_Lightman
The_Lightman
Orlando, Fl, USA
Posts: 49
Joined: August 2001
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.050s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7789 MB (Peak: 0.9237 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-12 08:27:58 UTC