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Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99771
09/04/06 10:32 PM
09/04/06 10:32 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,180
Estero,Fl,usa
314.23(E)&(F) says you can support enclosures from raceways and 352.12(B) referencing 352.10(H) says you can't support anything but conduit bodies from RNC. Can you support a swimming pool wet niche "J" box from RNC? How about a transformer?

I know we routinely OK the J box. Is it really a violation?


Greg Fretwell
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99772
09/05/06 05:58 AM
09/05/06 05:58 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
The specific rules always "trump" the general rules.
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 09-05-2006).]


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99773
09/05/06 11:06 AM
09/05/06 11:06 AM
E
earlydean  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
No, you cannot support neither a deck box or a transformer with PVC conduit. 90.3 tells us that information in Chapters 1-4 apply generally, and Chapters 5-7 supplement or modify the general rules.
314.23(E)&(F) tells us we can support a splicing device with RMC or IMC conduit (the only 2 wiring methods that can be threaded wrenchtight).
352.10(H) allows conduit bodies containing splicing devices (wire-nuts).
Both transformers and deck boxes need to be listed (680.24) Nowhere in 680.24 does it allow the PVC conduit to support the deck box or transformer.

It really is a violation!


[This message has been edited by earlydean (edited 09-05-2006).]


Earl
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99774
09/05/06 01:37 PM
09/05/06 01:37 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,180
Estero,Fl,usa
The PVC J boxes really do not have a place to provide additional support.
Usually they do just get stuck up on the stubs that come out of the ground. If the pool is built on a stem wall and the equipment is on the ground these can be on some pretty tall pipes. I have never liked it but it is SOP. The other day I had a fellow IAEI inspector say the same rule would allow a transformer if it was made of a suitable material with threaded hubs. I drew the line there. I see you agree with my original contention, that the J boxes were also illegal, although I don't know how else you would do it.
Mine are really supported by the RNC but I have a clamp within an inch of the J box and they are against the wall.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99775
09/05/06 02:39 PM
09/05/06 02:39 PM
G
George Little  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
There's some Listed equipment out there made by I think a company called "Thermcraft" and sold through T & B. The deck boxes are supported by an optional solid post or an optional bracket suport. They also are Listed for multiple lights with terminations for more than one fixture. I saw them when I was at the Jubilee in FL. Greg you might remember the booth where the guy was pushing their products.
Found a site that I was talking about: http://www.californiapoolsupply.net..._Fixture_Swimming_Pool_Ju_p/jbp57510.htm

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-05-2006).]


George Little
Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)? #99776
09/05/06 09:54 PM
09/05/06 09:54 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
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Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,180
Estero,Fl,usa
Interesting George. The Thermocraft is the box we see but I never see the support hardware. Usually it is just a 1x3 PT scrap they find in the dumpster from the window framers and strapped to the raceways.

(Yeah I suppose they might bring a 1x3 but I doubt it)


Greg Fretwell

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